Skitarii Musings

[WestRider]

Some things I'm thinking of giving a try:

 

- 5 Rangers, 65 Points, possibly add Enhanced Data Tether

Just skulk around the edges, camp an out-of-the-way Objective, stay in Cover and Go to Ground whenever shot at, take pot shots when the opportunity arises.

 

- 5 Rangers, 2xTransuranic Arquebus, 115 Points, possibly add Enhanced Data Tether or Omnispex

Similar deal, just with better range and more punch. Even more fragile per Point, tho, so work LoS as well as possible.

 

- 10 Vanguard, 3xArc Rifle, Omnispex, 155 Points. This is my first thought on a default "line" Squad. Arc Rifles are relatively cheap, match range reasonably well with the Rad Carbines, and turn the Squad into all-rounders. Still pretty expensive for a Unit so fragile, but better than Scions.

 

- 5 Vanguard, 2xArc Rifle, Omnispex, Arc Pistol, Arc Maul, 125 Points+Drop Pod and maybe Support Character. Wolf Priest, Ulric, Prescience caster, whatever. Can also add the Skull of Elder Nikola and push it to be one of the later Turn Pods, possibly using Re-rolls from something to try to keep it back until Turn 3-4. Should be able to put 2-3 HP on just about anything.

- 9 Vanguard, 2xPlasma Caliver, Omnispex, Phosphor Blast Pistol, 166 Points+Drop Pod and Wolf Priest/Ulric

The version for going after things with a Toughness value instead of Vehicles. Preferred Enemy character support is as much as anything about avoiding Gets Hot with that many Plasma shots, but re-rolling 1s to Wound is also probably going to be nice here. Could also just rely on the higher level +BS Imperatives to get to BS6+ if avoiding Gets Hot is the main goal, and could max the Squad and get a third Caliver in that case.

 

- 10 Vanguard, Pater Radium, Taser Goad, Ordo Xenos Inquisitor with Rad & Psychotroke Grenades, 185 Points

Can add Special Weapons or whatever if desired. Try to Multi-Assault with these guys when feasible to force as many Pater Radium Toughness Tests at -2 as possible. Taser Goad is there because it's the cheapest thing that boosts Strength, getting the Alpha above the Instant Death threshold for more things. Wish I could add a Power Maul on the Inquisitor, but they only get Power Swords. Probably going to want at least one more Unit going in with them to take off some of the heat and provide another character to soak Challenges.

 

- Sicarian Infiltrators with Taser Goads and the Omniscient Mask.

Because re-rolls and things that give extra Hits on 6s are always fun :) Really not sure about Unit size here, my gut feeling is 7-8, but they're really fragile. Definitely need to make as much use of LoS Blockers as possible. Between the re-rolls and their WS debuff Aura, it keeps them from losing much effectiveness if you need to use one of the Imperatives that reduces their WS. I wish that either the RustStalkers had options that comboed well with Zealot or the Infiltrators also benefited from the SlaughterSprint in the KillClade, but it is what it is.

 

- Speaking of Sicarians, the Dunestrider Rule seems like it could be useful at times to "slingshot" slower ICs into Combat. Especially if the SlaughterSprint from the KillClade still works with an IC Joined, which it looks like it does, but isn't entirely clear.

 

Dunecrawlers:

-The Icarus Array is pretty impressive Skyfire, especially against FMCs, but 125 Points is spendy for a dedicated AA platform that's mostly just dead weight against ground-bound Targets. Probably best to just stick with Allied Flyers.

-The Neutron Laser is appealing since I'm always paranoid about having enough Anti-Tank, and it's also nice against TWC and Centurions. With all the Haywire the Army can pack, tho, I'm not really sure it's needed. Could be nice against Knights in combination, get the Haywire into a different Arc to mess with Shield priority.

- I like the idea of the Phosphor Blaster, but when I start running the math, it just doesn't end up being very effective against most of the things I would want it for. If it worked on Hits, I'd be all over it.

- The basic Eradication Beamer is the other option that really appeals to me. 90 Points ain't bad for an AV12 HP3 Vehicle with an Invul. Really depends on how well I can manage the Range to get the best use out of the various Profiles, tho. Scout helps with that somewhat.

- I figure I'm probably going to default to the Neutron Laser, but I'm definitely experimenting with the Icarus Array and Eradication Beamer at some point.

[Guest]

Dunecrawlers:

-The Icarus Array is pretty impressive Skyfire, especially against FMCs, but 125 Points is spendy for a dedicated AA platform that's mostly just dead weight against ground-bound Targets. Probably best to just stick with Allied Flyers.

-The Neutron Laser is appealing since I'm always paranoid about having enough Anti-Tank, and it's also nice against TWC and Centurions. With all the Haywire the Army can pack, tho, I'm not really sure it's needed. Could be nice against Knights in combination, get the Haywire into a different Arc to mess with Shield priority.

- I like the idea of the Phosphor Blaster, but when I start running the math, it just doesn't end up being very effective against most of the things I would want it for. If it worked on Hits, I'd be all over it.

- The basic Eradication Beamer is the other option that really appeals to me. 90 Points ain't bad for an AV12 HP3 Vehicle with an Invul. Really depends on how well I can manage the Range to get the best use out of the various Profiles, tho. Scout helps with that somewhat.

- I figure I'm probably going to default to the Neutron Laser, but I'm definitely experimenting with the Icarus Array and Eradication Beamer at some point.

Rust stalkers and infiltrators are really iffy in my mind. Only initiative 4 and only 3 toughness. FNP and a 6++, yeah, but toughness 3 and probably swinging at the same time or after most opponents. Land Raiders or Storm Ravens seem almost mandatory, just so you can really pick your battles and not die to shooting on the way there. Incinerators and nova cannons are going to dismantle this unit.

 

Phosphor weapons do need an ideal target and not everything is.

 

Neutron laser is iffy. I know, S10 ap1 is neat, but I've found weapons like that seem to fail more often than they look like they should on paper. Typically issue is that between needing 4+ for AV14 and 5+ for AV15, then followed by either a 4+ cover or invulnerable save, targets are really damaged a forth the time (and since single shot, means it damages once every 4 turns...). Agree that it would be solid against T5 opponents (or scattering onto T6 opponents locked with vanguard....). Really hate that it can't snap at flyers.

 

In regards to the icarus, partially agree. Neat bit about the the crawlers is that the unit benefits from more members (invulnerable), so you could have a unit that has a different role when there aren't flyers in the sky, and just use mister icarus as the 3 HP in the front of the squadron.

[WestRider]

This is more a modeling aspect, but while I was building some of my dudes, I realized that, on the Special Weapons guys, the only difference between a Ranger and a Vanguard is the head, and those are pretty easy to make swappable. Not as useful as for many Armies, since those two Units have a pretty strong split in which Specials they want, but it's easy enough that I may well do it just for future-proofing.

[Guest]

This is more a modeling aspect, but while I was building some of my dudes, I realized that, on the Special Weapons guys, the only difference between a Ranger and a Vanguard is the head, and those are pretty easy to make swappable. Not as useful as for many Armies, since those two Units have a pretty strong split in which Specials they want, but it's easy enough that I may well do it just for future-proofing.

Come now, the difference is that you paint lots of radioactive warning symbols on the vanguard, while the rangers have some attempt at moderate camouflage.

 

As for the special weapon splits, I completely disagree. I think both units have strong value with all three special weapons. I will note that that armorbane sniper rifle has a ridiculous model, as they seem have modeled it unaware that GW planed to give it to a relentless unit...

[AgentP]

I personally favor the eradication beam.  It brings a nice versatility to things, options for anti infantry or vehicle hunting.  I think a unit of 3 is a very solid choice in the Skitarii army.

[Guest]

I personally favor the eradication beam.  It brings a nice versatility to things, options for anti infantry or vehicle hunting.  I think a unit of 3 is a very solid choice in the Skitarii army.

It's a weird one, to be sure.

 

Main concern would be that it "encourages" a horde army to get closer and a non-horde army to stay at a distance. You can certainly get it to work to your advantage, but I think you'll have a few turns each game where the opponent is just not in the right spot to shoot the right version.

[Guest]

After much reading and rereading, I'm really starting to advocate those two-legged walkers.

 

In durability, they look lacking, but when you really start to compare to similar platforms, they are basically just land speeders with AV+1 on all sides, no jink, and a bunch of free rules. Being walkers, even the non-lance version have solid potential to tie up small, underequiped units and assault weak vehicles.

 

The heavy version has precision shots and TL weapons, so you can actually lower their BS to increase their odds of precision shots (because only misses can be re-rolled). This would only be worthwhile on certain targets.

 

The cognis weapons are amazing on paper. Basically, it's a groundfire weapon with pretty solid skyfire options. Cognis autocannon "should" hit flyers every time it shoots. It's a TL BS2 autocannon against flyers.

 

Taser lance is very viable against vehicles with weaker rear armor. Especially against vehicles which are a pain to shoot at, like eldar wave serpents. Platform is easily fast enough to catch them.

 

Jezzrail is actually a nifty one too. On 6s to wound, it is ap2 via sniper, and inflicts two wounds. This has particular value against gargantuan creatures, as sniper weapons only wound on 6s.

 

As for unit sizes, I'm thinking 1 walker per squadron in games smaller than apocalypse/3k. It's all about tying up enemy shooting with these small, questionable targets. Opponent would have to almost always dedicate more expensive units to shoot these, as they are just durable enough to ignore the common weapons on light units.

 

Being both very fast and a melee-able vehicle means being able to tie up certain enemy units. Devastator centurions, other shooting-only walkers, and so forth.

 

A solid MSU unit.

[WestRider]

My only issue with the Dunestriders is their dollar cost. They really do look like they've got a lot of potential, game-wise, but I just keep looking at the price tag and putting the box back down.

[Guest]

My only issue with the Dunestriders is their dollar cost. They really do look like they've got a lot of potential, game-wise, but I just keep looking at the price tag and putting the box back down.

I intend to use sentinels and a few bits from the vanguard kit....

[Nathanvoodoo]

This is more a modeling aspect, but while I was building some of my dudes, I realized that, on the Special Weapons guys, the only difference between a Ranger and a Vanguard is the head, and those are pretty easy to make swappable. Not as useful as for many Armies, since those two Units have a pretty strong split in which Specials they want, but it's easy enough that I may well do it just for future-proofing.

 

They also have a different base weapon. Galvanic rifle on Rangers and Phosphor Thingy on Vanguard.

[Guest]

They also have a different base weapon. Galvanic rifle on Rangers and Phosphor Thingy on Vanguard.

No, vanguard have the radium carbines. I wish we had a phosphor unit base option...

[WestRider]

They also have a different base weapon. Galvanic rifle on Rangers and Phosphor Thingy on Vanguard.

Which is why I specified that the head swap only works for the Special Weapons dudes.

[Nathanvoodoo]

Ah. Yeah. Posting before coffee.

 

That's a sweet call tho. I'll have to do that on all my future kits

[winterman]

Nice overview.

 

On a related note...(sorry if this derails but ties in with other posts)...what is everyones thoughts on using ranger heads on vanguard.  Everything else is WYSIWYG.  Just not feeling the Vanguard heads much.  Seems reasonable, people head swap all the time, and would look to further differentiate the two units in other ways beyond gear as well.

[WestRider]

Usual guideline: Someone reasonably familiar with the Army should be able to look at your list, look at the Models on the table, and tell what's what.

[Guest]

Usual guideline: Someone reasonably familiar with the Army should be able to look at your list, look at the Models on the table, and tell what's what.

Or, if the only skitarii on 25mm bases in the army are vanguard, it should be pretty easy to explain.

 

Really, only two unit types on 25mm bases in the skitarii army. I plan to only field vanguard, as I don't need/want the other unit.

[WestRider]

I've been thinking more about Sicarians, because I really like the idea of running a Kill Clade, but what I always keep coming back to is that they just don't seem viable unless there's quite a bit of LoS Blocking Terrain around, and that's such an unreliable thing to depend on. If they can get that, I think they could often do a really effective job of skittering around and being a total nuisance in someone's backfield, but if they ever get caught out in the open by any S6+ firepower, they're just gonna evaporate.

 

It's frustrating, because I'm building them up, and they're such cool models, but I'm pretty sure they're just not going to hit the table very often.

[WestRider]

Also, while on the topic of Sicarians, is it just me, or is there no reason to ever give RustStalkers Transonic Blades? They give up their Poisoned Haywire Assault Grenades and their Fleshbane Attacks for just +1S? Seems like a pretty bad tradeoff to me.

[Sugarlessllama]

Usual guideline: Someone reasonably familiar with the Army should be able to look at your list, look at the Models on the table, and tell what's what.

What I usually do (coming from Warmachine) is mark the bases differently. If your opponent can't figure out red bases for vanguard, blue bases for rangers, that is more of a them problem, than a you problem.

[Nathanvoodoo]

I've been thinking more about Sicarians, because I really like the idea of running a Kill Clade, but what I always keep coming back to is that they just don't seem viable unless there's quite a bit of LoS Blocking Terrain around, and that's such an unreliable thing to depend on. If they can get that, I think they could often do a really effective job of skittering around and being a total nuisance in someone's backfield, but if they ever get caught out in the open by any S6+ firepower, they're just gonna evaporate.

 

It's frustrating, because I'm building them up, and they're such cool models, but I'm pretty sure they're just not going to hit the table very often.

 

I was thinking a bunch about them last night, too... Things that started to pop out for me were 2 fold- 1 The Maniple gives your units Scout and Crusader. Which the Sicarians NEED- and second the Infiltrators have stealth and Infiltrate- with infiltrate being the more imperative skill.

 

I don't think I'd give the ruststalkers are run. Sure they bring the anti-2+ armror, and seem superior in CC, but at least with the infiltrators you get that bubble of radiation thing- and you can actually deploy them close to where they should be.

 

Honestly with something like this, getting them locked in combat is sometimes just as good as having them 86 a squad. All too often I've driven a blob of Death Company into my opponents ranks and as soon as they mop up the last enemy they get shot to half strength. I feel like sometimes it's just as well to dive your opponents Centurians or what have you- and hold them up for a few turns. If you win the combat, great, if not, at least they messed up your opponents tactics.

 

Infiltrators would be a great anti-artillery unit. 

[Guest]

Also, while on the topic of Sicarians, is it just me, or is there no reason to ever give RustStalkers Transonic Blades? They give up their Poisoned Haywire Assault Grenades and their Fleshbane Attacks for just +1S? Seems like a pretty bad tradeoff to me.

They've got furious charge, so they become S6 on the charge. I'm pretty sure that's the point. Allows ID on T3 (or T4 with GK IC via hammerhand, then T5 if vanguard are also in the assault).

 

That said, no clue if viable. Just saying what I think the "reasoning" behind the upgrade.

 

The thing I keep thinking about with this unit, and the other elites unit, is that GK incinerators will ID these guys and deny armor (they still get the 6++, and potentially the leader could have a conversion field). Really lacking toughness for an assault unit in a game with overwatch.

 

 

I've been thinking more about Sicarians, because I really like the idea of running a Kill Clade, but what I always keep coming back to is that they just don't seem viable unless there's quite a bit of LoS Blocking Terrain around, and that's such an unreliable thing to depend on. If they can get that, I think they could often do a really effective job of skittering around and being a total nuisance in someone's backfield, but if they ever get caught out in the open by any S6+ firepower, they're just gonna evaporate.

 

It's frustrating, because I'm building them up, and they're such cool models, but I'm pretty sure they're just not going to hit the table very often.

You could always take allies which give them a viable invulnerable save. Azrael, any number of psychic powers, PFG and so forth. Until they FAQ it, dunestrider should apply to attached ICs.

 

The other, very viable option, would be getting an assault transport, like a Storm Raven or Land Raider.

[WestRider]

I was thinking a bunch about them last night, too... Things that started to pop out for me were 2 fold- 1 The Maniple gives your units Scout and Crusader. Which the Sicarians NEED- and second the Infiltrators have stealth and Infiltrate- with infiltrate being the more imperative skill.

 

I don't think I'd give the ruststalkers are run. Sure they bring the anti-2+ armror, and seem superior in CC, but at least with the infiltrators you get that bubble of radiation thing- and you can actually deploy them close to where they should be.

 

Honestly with something like this, getting them locked in combat is sometimes just as good as having them 86 a squad. All too often I've driven a blob of Death Company into my opponents ranks and as soon as they mop up the last enemy they get shot to half strength. I feel like sometimes it's just as well to dive your opponents Centurians or what have you- and hold them up for a few turns. If you win the combat, great, if not, at least they messed up your opponents tactics.

 

Infiltrators would be a great anti-artillery unit. 

I only see RustStalkers as being viable in the Kill Clade. Even without Scout, Dunestrider+SlaughterSprint gives them a 31-51" two Turn threat range. And they give the Kill Clade Infiltrators a 12" bubble instead of 6.

 

Definitely great for just getting stuck in. I actually feel like there are some matchups where they might be too killy, and too prone to leaving themselves out in the open. Hunting Artillery and such is pretty much what I see them doing best.

 

@Pax: Yes, they get to S6. But the number of situations where being S6 is really important is so miniscule compared to the number of situations where Fleshbane, or Armourbane, or being able to strike at Init when Charging into Cover are really important that I just can't see it as an equal swap. Maybe if they were like 5 Points cheaper with the Blades, and had to pay to upgrade to the other stuff, but no way if they're the same cost.

[WestRider]

Modeling-wise, the Dune-crawler seems to be the outlier. Kit went together very nicely, minimal cleanup needed, and even including the time needed for magnetizing three of the four weapon options (Phosphor Blaster and Icarus Array use the same baseplate, and I didn't want to mess with it), it took less time to build than just three Sicarians. A couple of the parts are misnumbered in the directions, but they're easy ones to figure out the right bit, and some of the ladders and railings and pipes are a bit fiddly (especially if you do them out of order and have to do the one in the middle last :P ), but not bad at all on the whole.

[Guest]

@Pax: Yes, they get to S6. But the number of situations where being S6 is really important is so miniscule compared to the number of situations where Fleshbane, or Armourbane, or being able to strike at Init when Charging into Cover are really important that I just can't see it as an equal swap. Maybe if they were like 5 Points cheaper with the Blades, and had to pay to upgrade to the other stuff, but no way if they're the same cost.

They don't get armor bane, with either version.

 

I'm also not defending the reasoning, just pointing out what I think it was.

 

As for charging through cover, if the unit is going inside a land raider with frag assault launchers, I don't have to lose my initiative on the charge. Not like I plan to walk the T3 multi-wound FNP unit into melee.

 

5 of them+a GK terminator character with hammer hand charging out of a Land Raider Redeemer. They'll have S8 on the charge, which if ap2, will really matter both against AV and T enemies.

[WestRider]

Sorry, meant Haywire, not Armourbane. And with Dunestrider, these guys are basically Cavalry speed, which really reduces the need for a Transport.