indytims Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Psychic Scream is a Nova, so it gets around the BS issue, and I think LoS as well, tho I don't recall for sure. I know Novas ignore most of the usual targeting restrictions; they can hit Units that are Locked in Combat and such. Yeah, nova is wicked - ignores LOS, being locked in combat, intervening models/terrain, etc. Very awesome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Thanks for the confirmation. Don't have my rulebook on hand here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indytims Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Thanks for the confirmation. Don't have my rulebook on hand here. WHAT? You do not have your rulebook handy? Your emperor would be displeased!!! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Looked up Psychic Scream. Yeah, nova and ignores cover+armor, but it only has 6" of range. Good luck hunting scatter bikers with that one. You'd need to be close enough to charge anyway.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Even if we're leaving Flyrants out of the discussion, the next likely source for Scream is Zoanthropes in a T-Cyte, which can catch at least one Squad pretty much guaranteed. After that, yeah, they've got issues, tho. And actually, that again reinforces just how much of the work Flyrants do for the Army. They're also the only mobile Psyker, and Tyrants are the only ones who get two Rolls on the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Hmmm...looks like better bet on psychic solutions to scatter bikers would be the Zoans in the pod, but with spirit leech via a Neurothrope. That's got 18" of range and they are BS4. It still denies cover+armor. Still, not a turn 1 solution. Still think that mawloc is near the top of the list for reliable turn 2 solutions to scatter bikers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galahad911 Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Hmmm...looks like better bet on psychic solutions to scatter bikers would be the Zoans in the pod, but with spirit leech via a Neurothrope. That's got 18" of range and they are BS4. It still denies cover+armor. Still, not a turn 1 solution. Still think that mawloc is near the top of the list for reliable turn 2 solutions to scatter bikers. A full distance scatter is not reliable though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 A full distance scatter is not reliable though. Such a pessimist. Yeah, something could go horribly wrong with any of these "solutions" which would cause them to be lacking. Tyranids aren't alone in that. If you don't want the possibility of fault, we really should stop playing 40k with dice.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 If you don't want the possibility of fault, we really should stop playing 40k with dice.... I know that NtK and OrkDork played a bunch of Warhammer at their house where they didn't roll dice, just used averages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 I know that NtK and OrkDork played a bunch of Warhammer at their house where they didn't roll dice, just used averages. StatHammer 40k: Literal Edition!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 I was mostly responding sarcastically to galahad911, as it seems like he finds the negative aspect of tyranids in every post. His tyranids are half empty. It's very sad. I know that NtK and OrkDork played a bunch of Warhammer at their house where they didn't roll dice, just used averages. Though this is neat. I've been considering trying for a speed version of 40k where warlord traits, psychic powers, and other pre-game things are just picked by the controlling player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Since galahad911 is one of the most prolific tyranid players I know in Portland, maybe listening to a bit of what he has to say might be wise. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Though this is neat. I've been considering trying for a speed version of 40k where warlord traits, psychic powers, and other pre-game things are just picked by the controlling player. Yuck. Okay, so I always infiltrate the units I want and get invisibility. Good game, you want to pack up your models now or over the course of the next hour? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggies01 Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Mawloc has to hope for a turn 2 3+ reserve roll before it can do any damage. Then it also has to hope for the No scatter, which never happens. If it misses (which it will) the bikers get to move away do about 3 wounds on it and still get there cover while being out of range of assault. Remember you can no longer burrow on turn one with them. Regarding Psychic Shrek (ha), They work wonders on Grey knights and seer council being that they are all psykers meaning it lowers leadership by 3 however all other units will be using their base leadership. So the good units that you really want to hit with it, Termies are going to have LD 9 or 10. Meaning, the most wounds you'll do is 6 to 5 (with the 2d6 +2), counting the enemy rolls the horrible boxcars. Don't get me wrong if everything works just right it can be great. But the questions is whether or not you want to waste your Zoe's warp charges of the very needed Warp Lance on a nova that if fails will leave the Zoe's dead next turn? Take into account (and I hate saying statistically) But statistically you won't do enough damage to the units around you to prevent them from dying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Anyway, the tryanids really don't have a turn 1 solution to scatter bikers and don't really need one. The scatter biker doesn't deny cover, so you get your tyranid fog machines and then you get your tyranid medic psychic powers, and you ignore the scatter bikers (catalyst+shrouding+any normal cover is 2+ followed by 5+). Yes, they could put a divination psyker in the mix and deny cover, but that's a whole different ballgame and your cheap target unit has just jumped in cost. If they put a psyker in, then getting them into shadows range and psychic scream/spirit leech/Psychic overload becomes much more viable. Heck, even just killing two members and trying to get them to flee off the table becomes more realistic if you can get them in shadows range and they have a psyker in the unit (ld 7 sucks, especially on fast backfield units). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Since galahad911 is one of the most prolific tyranid players I know in Portland, maybe listening to a bit of what he has to say might be wise. He's a fine player, but he really is pessimistic about his tyranids. It is sad. And I am listening. He's had a few good points that I missed and I didn't mean to belittle it. He's just so very pessimistic and it is hard for me, the optimist, to endure sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggies01 Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Mawlocs without Lictor spam are very unreliable. Very. I have played roughly 1 million (don't fact check me) games with them. Take for granted. They can't burrow turn one. So deep strike them right. So turn two with a 3+. In a perfect world you get them turn two. They do absolutely nothing besides that deepstrike rule. So burrow turn 3 right? Come back turn 4. So you have used it twice so far. Should you burrow them turn 5? Do tourney games last until turn 5? 140 points? For 2 burrow attacks that hit on scatter dice 1/3 of the time. Hmm. Might spend the points elsewhere if not spamming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 He's a fine player, but he really is pessimistic about his tyranids. It is sad. And I am listening. He's had a few good points that I missed and I didn't mean to belittle it. He's just so very pessimistic and it is hard for me, the optimist, to endure sometimes. He isn't a pessimist. It isn't like he's looking at these bugs in a vacuum and pronouncing they don't work. He's played all these things you're asking about. This is personal experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 He isn't a pessimist. It isn't like he's looking at these bugs in a vacuum and pronouncing they don't work. He's played all these things you're asking about. This is personal experience. Just because a person's glass is half empty from experience doesn't make it cease to be pessimism. It is the attitude that makes it pssimism, not the basis for the attitude. pes·si·mism noun: pessimism a tendency to see the worst aspect of things or believe that the worst will happen; a lack of hope or confidence in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Mawlocs without Lictor spam are very unreliable. Very. I have played roughly 1 million (don't fact check me) games with them. Take for granted. They can't burrow turn one. So deep strike them right. So turn two with a 3+. In a perfect world you get them turn two. They do absolutely nothing besides that deepstrike rule. So burrow turn 3 right? Come back turn 4. So you have used it twice so far. Should you burrow them turn 5? Do tourney games last until turn 5? 140 points? For 2 burrow attacks that hit on scatter dice 1/3 of the time. Hmm. Might spend the points elsewhere if not spamming. Was about to suggest lictors and a communications upgrade for your tyranid bunker. Then again, I could just get lucky... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Anyway, the tryanids really don't have a turn 1 solution to scatter bikers and don't really need one. The scatter biker doesn't deny cover, so you get your tyranid fog machines and then you get your tyranid medic psychic powers, and you ignore the scatter bikers (catalyst+shrouding+any normal cover is 2+ followed by 5+). Umm.You might want to do the math there. Each Scatter Laser vs T6 MCs: 4 Shots. Hits 8/3. Wounds 8/6. 1 1/3 wounds per Bike. Each Scatter Laser vs T5 MCs: 4 Shots, 8/3 Hits, 16/9 Wounds. Almost 2 wounds per bike. Each Scatter Laser vs T4 and Under: 4 Shots, 8/3 Hits, 40/18 Wounds. More than 2 Wounds per bike. We'll say, on average, you'll further reduce that by half. (Cover/Saves/Catalyst or lack thereof depending on target) A full squad of Scatter bikers is still taking down a Tyranid T6 MC every turn (unless it is flying), Multiple T5s and tons of little bugs. This is assuming no psychic powers or any other buffs. Saying Tyranids don't need a solution to bikers because they have awesome cover saves/FNP is just silly. For example, against Steve in our game at Annihil, I think MAYBE half the time he had cover from my units. Some of that was Mal cover. But most of the time, I was whittling down/trying to kill anything out of cover. If I had 30 scatter bikes? Hoo boy, that would have been a massacre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Just because a person's glass is half empty from experience doesn't make it cease to be pessimism. It is the attitude that makes it pssimism, not the basis for the attitude. Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. :) You say it as sarcasm, but by definition it is completely true. I've heard a term for the paranoia that police and security guards have is "reasonable paranoia," which is still totally paranoia, it is just so very common that it is dismissed from being an abnormality. Remember, what makes it a hallucination is not that others cannot see what you see, but that you cannot convince the psychiatrist that what you see is really there. More or less, most of psychiatry boils down to social skills between the patient and the doctor, as a lack of ability to communicate can easily result in misdiagnosis. Yuck. Okay, so I always infiltrate the units I want and get invisibility. Good game, you want to pack up your models now or over the course of the next hour? Yeah, it would be a bit insane, especially at first. You'd get used to it. Plus, I would be using the ITC format regarding invisibility and 2+ re-rolls and probably the D weapon nerf. Anyway, I wouldn't be using averages in game, just allowing players to pre-pick pre-game things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 You say it as sarcasm, but by definition it is completely true. I've heard a term for the paranoia that police and security guards have is "reasonable paranoia," which is still totally paranoia, it is just so very common that it is dismissed from being an abnormality. Yeah, it would be a bit insane, especially at first. You'd get used to it. Plus, I would be using the ITC format regarding invisibility and 2+ re-rolls and probably the D weapon nerf. Anyway, I wouldn't be using averages in game, just allowing players to pre-pick pre-game things. I'm not using it as sarcasm; I'm using it to highlight the silliness of your point. Even if it is pessimistic, it is based on real experience. Your optimism is based on a 30,000 foot passover of the tyranid rules which you have never used. Even with the ITC nerf, being able to guarantee what warlord traits and what psychic powers I can get is a bad idea. The randomness helps mitigate some of the power of those warlord traits and powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggies01 Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 I think Tyranid players in general have a certain aura of pessimism. If you have a dump truck run over you every Wednesday at noon for 15 years, well you are going to start hating the noonish part of the day, not to mention those damn dump trucks. Watching a new nid player is like watching a time lapse of somebodies life slowly falling apart. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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