Doug Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 These are probably stupid questions but I've looked and looked and can't find them in the book. Please help a brother out! If you know the page number for these two, that's even better... 1. I was told that you must keep 50% of your force on the table at the start. You can't put everything in reserves. Is that correct? 2. How do grenades/melta-bombs work in close combat against vehicles and walkers? Can you master-craft a grenade or a melta-bomb? Can you use them against monstrous creatures too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 1) This was in 6th Ed. It no longer exists in 7th. Do note, however, that if you have nothing on the table at the end of any Game Turn, you auto-lose, so most Armies want to start with something durable on the board. (Pg.133, top right) 2)Grenades (including Meltabombs) get a single Attack per Model in CC, but otherwise function like regular Attacks. Use WS comparison to determine what you need to hit, etc. I don't believe you can Master-Craft Grenades, but that restriction might be gone as well. Most Grenades that can be used in CC can be used against Vehicles, MCs, and Weapons Emplacements, but some are more restricted. Pg.180-181 in the Main Rulebook has most of this, but some of it depends on the individual Grenades, so it'll be in their description in the Codex or wherever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 note "Or whatever" is also a rule reference 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Well, certain Grenades only appear in Dataslates, and there's probably at least one that's WD only, and then there are FW books, and I don't even know what format GW's going to drop next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Grenades are weapons that can be used in shooting, melee, or both (depending on the particular grenade.) They can theoretically be Master-Crafted via the Salamanders Chapter Tactic, paying for it on a Grey Knight character, or a "lucky" warlord trait on an Inquisitor. Grenades can be used against any target when shooting; in melee, they can be used against vehicles (of all types), monstrous/gargantuan creatures and their flying counterparts, buildings, and gun emplacements (such as a Quad Gun purchased as terrain, but not units with the Artillery type.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Grenades can be used against any target when shooting; in melee, they can be used against vehicles (of all types), monstrous/gargantuan creatures and their flying counterparts, buildings, and gun emplacements (such as a Quad Gun purchased as terrain, but not units with the Artillery type.) In general, this is true. I know of at least one exception, tho: The Mindscrambler Grenades that Sicarian RustStalkers carry can only be used against Vehicles (and things that count as such) in CC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Grenades are weapons that can be used in shooting, melee, or both (depending on the particular grenade.) They can theoretically be Master-Crafted via the Salamanders Chapter Tactic, paying for it on a Grey Knight character, or a "lucky" warlord trait on an Inquisitor. I'm pretty sure you are wrong here. My understanding is that grenades are wargear which function as weapons under certain circumstances. I don't think they qualify as weapons in any of the codex which use them. I do know that they are listed as grenades in the BRB, not as ranged or melee weapons in those respective sections. In my BA codex, grenades are very clearly a type of "special issue wargear" while melee and ranged weapons have their own sections. The current DA codex also lists them in the "special issue wargear" section of their codex. The GK codex also lists them as wargear, not weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 I'm pretty sure you are wrong here. My understanding is that grenades are wargear which function as weapons under certain circumstances. I don't think they qualify as weapons in any of the codex which use them. I do know that they are listed as grenades in the BRB, not as ranged or melee weapons in those respective sections. In my BA codex, grenades are very clearly a type of "special issue wargear" while melee and ranged weapons have their own sections. The current DA codex also lists them in the "special issue wargear" section of their codex. The GK codex also lists them as wargear, not weapons. Weapons are a specific type of wargear. They are not listed under the ranged or melee weapons in the BRB because they can potentially be used in either. The fact that they are wargear with a weapon statline means that, by definition, they are a type of weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Weapons are a specific type of wargear. They are not listed under the ranged or melee weapons in the BRB because they can potentially be used in either. The fact that they are wargear with a weapon statline means that, by definition, they are a type of weapon. I know they function as weapons, but for the purpose of master crafting, I don't think they are weapons. It's also kinda unfluffy to have a master crafted krak or frag grenade which you use every turn... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Things that function as weapons are weapons, generally speaking. "Weapon" is not a special rule or defined category, so the only meaningful way to separate it is by things which use the standard weapon profile- including grenades. Note that in a model's wargear, grenades are listed exactly the same way everything else is. As far as fluff goes, you can have any explanation you want. Why not assume that the master-crafted grenades are part of a rare and superior type of grenade (that works better than normal) just like anything else? It's not as though unique and high-quality ammunition or expendable items are a thing that don't exist in the real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Things that function as weapons are weapons, generally speaking. "Weapon" is not a special rule or defined category, so the only meaningful way to separate it is by things which use the standard weapon profile- including grenades. Note that in a model's wargear, grenades are listed exactly the same way everything else is. As far as fluff goes, you can have any explanation you want. Why not assume that the master-crafted grenades are part of a rare and superior type of grenade (that works better than normal) just like anything else? It's not as though unique and high-quality ammunition or expendable items are a thing that don't exist in the real world. In previous codex FAQs, they always FAQed grenades as being unable to be bought as master crafted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 In previous codex FAQs, they always FAQed grenades as being unable to be bought as master crafted. And now they haven't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 And now they haven't. Just looked, yeah, they still have the GK FAQ from the last codex.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 In previous codices, GK could take Inquisitional units as troops. Times change. Things are different now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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