Chapel

I have an additional question regarding formations and detachments.I've never really been super clear on detachments, but I don't want to show up with an army I can't use.I play Tyranids by the way... Does a formation count as a detachment? Or does a formation become part of the CAD?For example, if I take the Skytyrant Swarm Formation, can the Hive tyrant from that formation be the Warlord of my Primary Detachment? At which point I could choose to take a second allied detachment? Would I be able to add another formation in, like the manufactorum genestealer formation? Can you have two formations in one single detachment?

Honestly the only one most of our group uses, is #3 the skyfire nexus. If it's anything else we just disregard it.

Just sent off registration fee, do I need to do anything else? Also is there a recommendation for hotels? I saw the list on the website, but wasn't sure where most people were staying. Thought it would be more fun to be at a place where most of the other players are going to be lodging.

Ok thanks, I was looking at the Guardian Games website, not the Guardian Cup website. Appreciate the link.

Hey is there a website to sign up on? I didn't see anything on the GG website listed under special events. I'm coming from Eugene and want to make sure that I'm signed up and have a spot. Don't want to just show up on the day of and hope for a spot.

I'm really stoked to see a non-standard, Tyranid list take the top spot. Even more so, He was playing the game from behind most of the game. I don't think you can blame line of sight blocking terrain, as there was an adequate, but not insane amount of it. You have to be able to adapt to any situation, including army composition and terrain layout. I think that is what makes this edition so great, there are soooo many possibilities. I also don't think it's fair to label it spam or bemoan the 3 flying Hive Tyrants, I would argue that 3 drop pods with Ob Sec are cheaper and far more effective. I think this match boiled down to a few Key Points: 1. Both players were very skilled and good at adapting to not only terrain, but they're opponents movements and actions. 2. Both players played 2 very unique and incredibly interesting army lists, which gives the element of surprise and the unknown. 3. Both players knew exactly how to best utilize the tools at their disposal and made very creative use of tactics. Both armies were very synchronous. 4. Finally, both players knew exactly how to capitalize on the smallest mistake and make their opponent pay dearly. I honestly think this is one of the crux arguments in this match. It was very entertaining and I actually learned a lot, though at times it was hard to hear what was going on over the commentary.

Sounds awesome! I'm looking forward to picking up one of those Toxicrene, so good to hear he was monstrous and worthwhile.

I politely disagree, I think everyone is playing it as written and intended per example.... Did you look at the example on page 38 that you pointed out? It very clearly points out that the orks obscured behind cover have a 4+ cover save because at least one firing model has his line of sight partially obscured by the ruin (pg. 108). The clarification on page 108 for ruins indicates that you don't need to be obscured by ruins to get a 4+ cover save if you are "in" the ruin. It does nothing to prevent the 4+ (not 5+) cover save if you are behind the ruin and partially obscured by that ruin.

I don't believe that it boils down to players "enjoying the simplicity of not learning a new edition", but more to common sense. You are the first and only person I've ever seen to suggest that a model must be "in" a ruin to gain a 4+ save, instead of getting a 5+ save for being "behind" the ruin. This is similar to the forests rule (I know there isn't one, just one for Copse trees) and blocking LOS. Everyone I've ever played, gives 5+ cover for being in or behind the trees, regardless of how many actual tree models are on the base and what kind of LOS they block.

I've always given a 4+ cover save if the enemies models are sheltered in or behind ruins, walls, or similar types of terrain. Hills and trees always a 5+, regardless if you are in the terrain or behind/obscured by it. For what it's worth, I've never heard of someone pushing for different cover saves from the same piece of terrain. Ruins are listed as providing a 4+ cover save, so if something has to draw line of sight through the ruins, it seems natural that it would also grant a 4+ cover save, as it's the same type of cover. No idea if that's the intention, but I've never heard it argued against before. Furthermore, I'm not sure how it's played in Portland, but if this is the first time it's coming up, that would suggest to me that everyone else is playing it as a 4+ cover save as well. Same thing with vehicles, if they're obscured 25% or more by a ruin then they're granted a 4+ cover save. I am curious how this is played in some of the major tournaments. Again, it seems as though it's counter intuitive to try to push for it to be different than that. Why cloud the rules up with oddity and inconsistency?

I'm with the consensus here, just because it says the Avatar is unaffected, doesn't mean you can ignore him for targeting purposes. The bullets example is a decent one.... If you are unaffected by bullets it doesn't mean you can't be targeted or that the bullets cease to follow all rules of gravity and physics and fly around you or treat you as invisible. You'd get shot, and the bullets would hit you and you would be 'unaffected' superman style.

That's a LOT of great information. Knowing that I can pay the cost of the weapon twice and get two of the same weapon system that isn't twin linked is good to know. For some reason I was under the impression that whenever you bought two of the same weapon it was automatically twin linked. Hold off from 4th or 5th edition probably. Love the Tau help guys, much appreciation.

I'm new to Tau and wanted to ask a couple questions about crisis suit loadouts after someone mentioned a few ideas to me for helping out my list. Tau Crisis suits have access to 3 weapons systems, you don't have to buy 3 but you can get up to three. I was under the impression that if you buy two missile pods for example, that they automatically get twin linked instead of being two separate missile pods. Obviously if you have two weapons (not twin linked)then you get double the shots which may or may not be preferable. Can you choose to buy two separate systems and just pay the single weapons points twice instead of twin linking them? Any advice is appreciated.

So if I owned a company, and lets say had some damn fine sculptors on board.... Who then created some inspired, derived, but original creations and then tried to sell them....oh wait. Yea got a cease and desist letter and then sued. Perhaps the point was lost in the example. I'll be blunt... GW is far from pristine and squeeky clean on the who swiped ideas from who situation. I also read an article about the Starcraft nonsense when the new tyranids were releasing, where several developers said the Zerg were original designs from Blizzard and GW was the offending body. Some sort of settlement came about. But I digress...I also don't buy the "Everything is derived from everything else" because you have to have some originals in there somewhere. Otherwise you end up with terrible remakes like Robocop and Total Recall. Oh the humanities... Look I'm not advocating buying direct copies, but I certainly can't judge them either. Not when there's culpability on both sides of the fence. Legal, illegal, guess it all depends on which side of the fence your sitting on. I like to sit on the fence and get both opinions before deciding which side to land on. Never know what your jumping into. So I give.....James sorry you're feeling bummed about the current state of gaming from the GW front. Hope you pull out of it dude and still enjoy the hobby eh.

If you don't think that the Hive Tyrant is a direct knock off of the Queen from Aliens, then I think my opinion of the definition of "Derivation" and "knock off" varies from yours.

Just playing devils advocate here and throwing some mud into the already cloudy waters.... What makes it acceptable for GW to rip off other ideas, companies, and intellectual properties/groups/individuals? Space Marines are almost a direct image of characters depicted in the book Starship Troopers written clear back in the 50's. Tyranid's are clearly derived from the game Starcraft, and even more closely identical is the last edition Hive Tyrant. It's almost a direct copy of the Hive Queen in the movie 'Aliens'. Tau are definitely modeled after the Robotech genre though this one is less clear as the others. While GW may have taken these ideas and changed them to suit their own purposes (who's to say who really came up with space orks eh), they clearly are borrowed or downright swiped ideas and imagery. Now obviously directly copying and selling something that someone else has manufactured isn't right, but what about the ideas behind those creations? How can GW justify going after Chapterhouse or Kromlech for creating materials and items based off their ideas, when they themselves have done exactly that? You mention the 'morality' of the action as opposed to the actual legality.....just because the author of Starship Troopers didn't copyright his ideas (or maybe he did and the copyright has expired), isn't it the same thing? Just thought I'd bring it up as a discussion point, because up to this point no one has mentioned GW's morals and the impact it might have. I mean after all, if GW has already 'stolen' the content and packaged it, and you've bought that product....isn't that similar? Maybe not compared to a direct knock off copy company, but definately compared to Kromlech and Chapterhouse who have artists that have sculped original material, just based and inspired by the GW works.

The LD of -3 for shadows in the warp will come into play if the psyker ends up taking a perils of the warp check. From the list I saw (if legit) most of them state "Take a LD test and if failed....." something bad happens. If you pass then you only take a wound with no save possible. I'm hoping that Shadows in the Warp will cause a Perils on enemy units on ALL doubles, not just double 6's. Or perhaps all double 5's and 6's. All doubles might be too powerful, but then again, no one is forcing the opponent to roll 8 dice for their powers.

Personally, I love that they're thumping out tons of new stuff and making more and more options. However at the same time, I'm bummed because it's a TON of rules to have to digest. After the first couple data slates, I stopped paying much attention and only started looking at the ones I was interested in. The biggest problem, which I think was nailed on the head here, is that no one knows what to expect anymore, so it's dang near impossible to build an "All comers" list. This is especially apparent at tournaments when people want to have a good idea of what to bring so that they have a shot at the title. No one wants to travel 4 hrs or more to a tournament, only to have their teeth kicked in because they had no clue what they were up against. As far as this goes, I'm not sure how to deal except try and expect everything. With the inclusion of the new Knights, I was looking over my Tyranids and found that I only have a handful of units that can even deal with an all Imperial Knights list. I doubt I'll ever play against one though, so it's probably not a huge issue. I think flyers were the same way. When flyers were introduced, there were only a few in the game, and people hated them because the armies that had them, abused them. Necron Air, spammed Helldrakes, and Chaos Flying Circus's. it was just a nightmare to deal with. However, as more and more armies gained flying vehicles/creatures, more and more people figured out ways to mitigate the spam, and now you don't see them as often. Even if you do, there's more ways to deal with them. They just aren't as powerful as they were. I think it's just a learning curve, and more importantly, a challenge to boldly play against anything new. I think this is the same reason Forgeworld models are so disapproved of. They used to have quite a few overpowered units back in the day. Now they've been mitigated and toned back, and while there may still be one or two lurking units that are a pain to play against, most of them are fun. People never got the bad taste out of their mouth though Personally, I'm planning on taking this thing head on by the horns and planning to play against whatever comes my way. If I find that I'm not having fun, I'll discuss it with my opponent and let em know, "Hey it's just not that fun playing against 3 Imperial Knights and Tau with 3 Broadsides." Players have a responsibility too, just because you CAN do something (Super Spammed Tau-Eldar), doesn't mean you should. After all it's about having fun playing a game.

Some of my biggest problems with the Codex, was that they didn't make units that got hosed by 6th edition rules playable. Genestealers and Lictors for example, these are two really fluffy and cool units, however because they have such a low armor save they just get shot to ribbons the instant that come on the table. They can't assault out of reserve/outflanking like 5th edition. Simple fix, give them a 1pt upgrade that allows that mechanic to work and they're worth their points. Otherwise they're really not much different than Hormagaunts, except 3-4 times as expensive. Make them 8pts a model and they're more in line with what they should be for a 5+ save. Second, what were they thinking with the scything talons? Why remove an ability that made units like hormagaunts and carnifex useful? There's almost no reason to take scything talons on a carnifex now. Why would you? You only gain a +1 attack if you take two sets, so that means that you either can't take any biomorph guns, or you take ALL biomorph guns. The re-roll 1's to hit and re-roll all hits was a great rule and made perfect sense for the Nids. They took character away from the units, and I'm not sure why. Rippers going up in cost....I have no words to explain my confusion.

So I've been quietly watching the conversation, and as a long time Tyranid player I think everyone is underestimating the power of the SitW. I agree on a lot of points that some of the new units may not be as cracked up to be, the Crone/Harpy for example could get trashed by a Quad gun in one round and die if it failed it's grounding test. However, the -3 LD is a pretty damn powerful aura. You can boost it to 18 or even 24" with psychic powers and the Norn Crown (though terribly expensive). Coupled with a Deathleaper, your enemies HQ could potentially be LD 3-4. Get those bad boys to take a LD test based on shooting or close combat result, and you have some space marines running out to get chicken instead of staying to fight. With as many shots as you can fire now with fleet Carnifexen, and the Exocrine, those turtled up units guarding the back line are in dire shape if a flying Tyrant is within Synapse range. I know some armies have fearlessness and will completely ignore SitW, but there are plenty that aren't Fearless or Stubborn armies. Honestly I think the golden eggs for this codex are Carnifex and Shadows in the Warp. I guess we'll see after I get some games in.