Bosco

@Frostitute you likely to be at next Tuesday?

I'm out tonight, will be there next week though!

Wait, are you only just now finding this out?

I definitely agree that the added range of the missile launcher is pretty useful for their (guardians camping objectives in the backfield) preferred use, and the more versatile firing modes are also appealing, I will see if I can perhaps make the platforms modular to change the weapon choice as needed. Nothing is painted yet so it isn't hurting any sort of progress to date. I definitely like the shining spears, but they are like my warlock skyrunners in that I'm going to have to do some pretty significant conversion work (kit bashing, greenstuff, etc.) before they're anything resembling playable vs most other units just needed stripping/painting/basing to be ready so planning around them isn't a good idea yet. I have included both the spears and warlock skyrunner conclaves in some alternative lists which had a greater melee focus, but even then melee is part of a greater whole rather than the list focus. As it is I like a more run-and-gun approach for what I expect to be playable in a reasonable timeline and will likely drop the autarch for another warlock skyrunner and perhaps a couple more windriders if points allow, though re-rolling 1's within 6" of the autarch is pretty tempting for building bubbles of focused effort temporarily throughout the game.

I've almost never had any weapons with that kind of range available, so that doesn't worry me too much, but it is worth pointing out. Thank you. Yeah, I'm pretty much abandoning melee with that build. Given the overall speed of the list I'm banking on just never engaging or using the built in retreat from the fly keyword to break away if it eventually happens in most cases. I'm tempted to drop the autarch in this build for another warlock skyrunner and a couple more bikes though since his only significant utility is his refreshing CPs on an unrelated dice roll.

I figured the two guardian squads would hold any backfield objectives and use the bright lances for vehicle hunting at range, using their transports as midrange fire support. If/when opposing forces close in on them they can either hop in the bus and scoot away or spray shuriken at them and hope to hold out. The dire avengers with their more survivable transport would be my advance troops unit, intending to be better at reaching an objective and then surviving once they're on site. As survivable as eldar infantry are anyways. While I definitely agree the fire prism is more useful in many cases, I'm generally more worried about dealing with infantry in larger numbers. The ability to fire 48" away without LOS is pretty appealing in an army that wants to hide, and when the dice are hot it has a great weapon. Between the volume of S6/7 shots and the to-wound roll rules of this edition along with access to rerolls and weapon AP changes on a 6 for several of the weapons, etc. I'm not terribly worried about T8+ targets in casual environments... on paper anyways.

Ok, how about something like this? It has almost no melee component, but has a few relatively manageable dedicated-role units. ++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [42 PL, 746pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + Craftworld Attribute: Saim-Hann: Wild Host + HQ + Autarch Skyrunner [6 PL, 108pts]: Banshee Mask, Craftworlds Warlord, Shuriken Pistol, The Novalance of Saim-Hann, Twin Shuriken Catapult + Fast Attack + Vypers [12 PL, 210pts] . Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon . Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon . Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon Windriders [8 PL, 168pts] . 6x Windrider - Scatter Laser: 6x Scatter Laser Windriders [8 PL, 168pts] . 6x Windrider - Shuriken Cannon: 6x Shuriken Cannon Windriders [8 PL, 92pts] . 4x Windrider - Twin Shuriken Catapults: 4x Twin Shuriken Catapult ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [70 PL, 1252pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + Craftworld Attribute: Saim-Hann: Wild Host + HQ + Farseer Skyrunner [7 PL, 135pts]: Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 70pts]: Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade + Troops + Dire Avengers [6 PL, 140pts] . 9x Dire Avenger: 9x Avenger Shuriken Catapult . Dire Avenger Exarch: Shimmershield & Power Glaive Guardian Defenders [5 PL, 105pts]: 10x Guardian Defender . Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Bright Lance Guardian Defenders [5 PL, 105pts]: 10x Guardian Defender . Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Bright Lance + Heavy Support + Night Spinner [8 PL, 140pts]: Twin Shuriken Catapult Night Spinner [8 PL, 140pts]: Twin Shuriken Catapult + Dedicated Transport + Wave Serpent [9 PL, 134pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Cannon Wave Serpent [9 PL, 134pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Cannon Wave Serpent [9 PL, 149pts]: Star Engines, Twin Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Vectored Engines ++ Total: [112 PL, 1998pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe I could split up the two 6-strong windrider units with heavy weapons into four 3-strong units, but it feels a bit advantageous.

I'll be there for Shadespire or board games.

Sorry, I'd posted before you called for links earlier in this thread; Barak Varr Ironclads

@ninefinger thanks for the teaching game of Shadespire; seems like a fast/light game system I can get into. I'll be picking up the core set at minimum to get the required tokens and boards, possibly more if I want to get competitive with the deck building for any future tournament play.

I should be there. I'll bring my BB teams in case there is an opportunity, play board games if that option pops up, or just watch 40k and/or shadespire.

Fairly close to a list I had scribbled up previously, with a few options shifted around. I like the dual shuriken cannon vypers as a trio; lots of speed to help offset the shorter range and gobs of shots to offset my luck with to-hit rolls and favor a couple warlock skyrunners over a farseer on foot (though they aren't terribly slow either compared to most). Is MSU frowned upon (again?) or is it less competitive in 8th than it had been in previous versions? I want to avoid any general build that is 'cheesy' for what will likely be casual play 99% of the time. I assume it will be a relatively low model count list (unless I fill the ranks with guardian defenders, but then they need a flying bus to keep up with everyone else). Jet bikes and tooled-up jet bike variants/characters seem to eat up the points quickly; looks like a steep learning curve to keep dancing units out of range/sight. I've generally found that having more targets in a low count list helps soften the blow when I inevitably leave a unit exposed or vulnerable. With my current (and largely theoretical/academic) understanding of the relative durability of my options for this army in 8th, pretty much anything short of a grav-tank will melt under any focus from an opposing force unless it is very heavily buffed, and odds are I can only protect one such unit at a time like that, though 8th in general seems like a painfully lethal edition in general.

Haha, no worries about that. Blood Bowl has become my go-to game on tabletop and PC. Maybe someday I'll get better at it. How many command points (CP) is a reasonable target for an average tournament scale army? If my battle-forged army (3CP base?) was the basic detachment (battalion; HQ and a few troops, +5CP) and added an Outrider detachment (+1CP) is that likely plenty (9CP) or do I need more? Could I get away with fewer CP and run two Outrider detachments instead to go crazy with fast Attack choices? I've run inventory and assuming I assemble everything as intended I can choose from: Autarch skyrunner with a lance Farseer skyrunner 9 warlock skyrunners Farseer on foot (eldrad?) Maugan Ra 51 guardians with 2 support weapons (intended to build them as bright lance and missile launcher) 20 dire avengers (3 exarchs with 1 each dual catapults, shield and glaive, and pistol and sword) 6 windriders with shuriken cannon 6 windriders with scatter lasers 6 windriders 9 shining spears, including exarchs 3 vypers with dual shuriken cannons 3 vypers with bright lance or missile launcher (not glued yet, could go either way 5 war walkers (3 dual missile launcher, 2 missile launcher/scatter laser) 2 nightspinners (the tank with the filament cannons) 1 fire prism 2 wave serpents with twin shuriken cannons and shuriken cannon 1 wave serpent with twin shuriken cannons and twin catapults 3 grav tanks that can be either falcons or wave serpents (depending on a few factors I might be able to make them convertible by swapping the turrets These can have just about anything as the secondary weapon (shuriken cannon/bright lance/scatter laser/starcannon/missile launcher) and the wave serpent builds would likely have most options as well More than enough for a few versions of the intended list in a few different builds. Once I've picked up an ultrasonic cleaner and an air compressor I'll get started stripping and painting/repainting everything. I should hopefully have things looking playable in the next couple months.

OK, how about this: Blitzer with Dodge Blitzer with Strip Ball Catcher with Dodge Catcher with SideStep Lineman with Kick Thrower with Safe Throw Some compromise on the Blitzer skills (I still want at least one with strip ball) and moves Side Step onto a catcher as well (it is an annoying skill to deal with). I've never been a big fan of wrestle (Elves on the ground are begging to get stepped on) and tackle has always felt like a 'slow-team' skill.

So I'm planning on bringing my elves to Ordo Bowl, I enjoyed playing them in Blitzmania and feel I'm a bit more competitive with them than I am with my Dwarf team, despite my preference for the Dwarfs. With 1,200,000 to work with an no proper star players other than Morg, I'm just going to take standard Elf Union players. I was thinking: Thrower 4x Catcher 2x Blitzer 5x Lineman 4 Rerolls 1 Fan Factor I like skill pack A (6 regular skills), which is where I feel like I need advice. In my limited experience with them, I generally found offense isn't a problem, but I can have issues on defense, especially when trying to pop the ball loose. 4 rerolls seems a bit overkill, but so does a 6th lineman (13th player); I think I can reliably get use out of a 4th reroll and make enough dodge rolls or desperate blocks that I go through them reliably. For skills I was considering: Lineman with Kick Blitzer with Strip Ball Blitzer with Leap/Mighty Blow/Strip Ball 2x Catcher with Dodge Catcher with ? or Safe Throw on the thrower Kick on a Lineman seems like a near mandatory investment; always one of my priority skills for a team with respectable speed and especially useful on an elf team. Ideally the Blitzers' skills would help in accessing the ball or more reliably popping it loose, though making them blodgers is also tempting for durability over the course of a game. Strip Ball seems like an obvious choice for at least one of them, possibly both, though Leap has a certain appeal as well. I'd considered Hail Mary on the Thrower and Diving Catch on a Catcher, but have concerns about it being reliably useful and it seems like a relatively poor investment. Safe throw is the only really appealing passing option I see since I've found I'm often throwing to covered Catchers (yay Nerves of Steel) leaving me vulnerable to interceptions, but even that has potential to never come into play. Dodge on the Catchers seems like the logical choice letting them better take a hit, position themselves to score or assist, or escape overlapping tackle zones after catching the ball. I considered Shadowing, but without a means to get Block or Dodge as well I worry they'd just be taken out quickly and the few times I've given players Shadowing I've been disappointed by the results (MA7/8). At the same time, putting Shadowing on a Blitzer (MA7) that starts with Side Step is tempting, but also hasn't worked well for me previously. Jump Up, Side Step, and Sure Feet are some other skills I find useful on the Catchers, both offensively and defensively. Any advice, criticism, or input is appreciated.

Sorry, I wasn't clear in my post; I've got the Craftworld codex, not the xenos index. Thank you though, I see where it might have been vague with 'army books'.

So a conversation with @Weav at game night got me thinking about playing 40k again. I'd started collecting a new (to me) eldar army a while back and would like to make some progress on them if I'm suitably motivated. I've played a single (500 point) game of 8th edition, which I liked well enough, and have the main (8th) rule book and (8th) army book(s) as well as the 2017 Chapter Approved. Do I need any other resources other than a FAQ from the GW site to have the current info for army building/planning? I know there was some significant shift in 8th gameplay not too long ago, but can't recall if it was contained in the chapter approved or elsewhere. I'll be the first to admit I haven't followed much news or threads to help myself, which I will do later when I have more time to dedicate to it. As for the army options, I have a fairly decent collection to work with and plan to build all variety of bikers/grav-tanks/etc. along with a unit or two of dire avengers, ~40 guardians with a couple grav-weapons platforms and a couple units of war walkers. I'm well past worrying about a competitive build/list, but don't want to melt off the table in the opening two turns. I'd prefer to focus on jetbikes and vypers since they're iconic units for Saim Hann IMO, but am not opposed to using falcons/serpents/prisms/etc. as well for supporting elements. Not sure if war walkers are the best fit for the army goals, but I can see justifying them as a scouting element. Ultimately, I want to build towards using this army for OFCC participation in future years, so a nice middle ground for being competitive and instead focusing on representing the faction and I'll be painting myself silly if it happens. Watching Saim Hann players in the past, the army was a constant dance of shifting focus and minimizing return fire. I assume it still plays much the same in the current edition. Anything I should specifically include or exclude to properly support the theme not already mentioned?

Mars?

Dunno when it matters, but I'll be playing my only eligible team, Barak Varr Ironclads.

Still have space available? If so, I'll have cash on Tuesday night to buy a ticket/spot (assuming that's an option).

I can't make it tonight, should be there next week though.

Should be there. Mars?

Thanks all for playing today, I had a great time. Per the request for feedback on the tournament format, etc.: TL, DR: I think longer rounds and scenarios better suited to one-off lists (resurrection) might make for more decisive rounds. Cutting the number of secondary/tertiary credits sources or reducing their value would also further put greater emphasis on the scenario W/L/D results. Game 1 vs Jeff's Gang in one of the traditional main rule book scenarios went more or less pretty back and forth, but time ran short before we could determine a clear winner despite shooting each other up a good bit. I felt we had plenty of terrain; lots of jockeying for a good ranged shot and really enjoyed the random card draw throughout the game each turn which added some evolving elements to the game. Game 2 vs Nate's Gang playing another traditional main rule book scenario with fixed tactics cards this time. Lopsided luck early to mid game made for an uphill fight for Nate and the terrain played to my list's strengths (long range firefights). Game 3 vs Josiah's Gang, playing the Caravan Heist mission. Of all the scenarios, this is the one I felt was the most lopsided, which is sometimes the case with attacker/defender roles. Josiah won the roll and chose attacker leaving my gang to escort/defend the caravan. Because I won/lost based on his gangers swarming the caravan over a few turns, I made the decision early on to protect it at all costs, knowing I'd likely sacrifice fighters to keep his gang at bay if needed. In a campaign/turf-war setting where there are longer term consequences I feel like this scenario is a more balanced conflict. In a resurrection-format tournament where the net effect of losing a fighter long term is essentially an opponent receiving 10 more credits towards their score and in this case meant I likely could prevent several opposing fighters from scoring or threatening to score for another turn it felt a bit unbalanced. Over a longer round time limit it might have been a better balance between attacker/defender, but I felt even if he'd recklessly thrown everything at the truck from the onset it was still a ridiculously difficult scenario for the attacker, and I was playing a relatively long range focused gang with only 2 dedicated melee fighters out of 8. This was also the first scenario I played where I got to choose (2) tactics cards, which was ultimately a big factor in the game early on for both sides. Game 4 vs Burk in another traditional main rule book scenario, on the 2D (Zone Mortallis?) board. This board was arguably the hardest terrain for my list with significantly fewer long shots (I don't know if there were any shot lanes over 24" without obstruction) even before he played a tactics card which put me off balance to the point I never recovered and was outplayed throughout the game afterwards. I felt this board/format was a nice counter-balance to my long-ranged build and would definitely recommend more of these for a larger scale tournament to encourage more balanced list builds or prevent a specific list type from having an advantage otherwise. Where the various 3D boards gave a multitude of firing lanes/options and let me take advantage of my equipment, the 2D board was a nice restricted environment. It might have been nice to have one or more additional features in a scenario like sentries or locked loot cases, but understandably that adds potential delays determining rules if not spelled out in a tournament packet or on the scenario itself. The scoring each round might benefit from some tweaking; of my credits throughout the tournament, only 140 came from game results (20+60+60+0) while half that (70) came from securing objective tokens and more still from killing/capturing opposing fighters throughout the tournament. Moving kills/captures to 5 credits each along with the secondary objectives would help refocus the tournament standings more towards the round results. As to Venators (a WD list of bounty hunters) in resurrection-tournament play I have mixed feelings having played them. In a campaign/turf-war they have a wonky income scheme that should help balance out the potential for their strengths early on as they can't control turf and instead are wholly dependent on their reputation (instead of turf) and captures/kills for credits throughout a campaign. In a resurrection format, there is no such fears of longer term consequence. Being able to choose everything down to the statline (4 statlines per type to choose from) for each character as well as having access to the entire trading post with relatively loose restrictions on their options means they can be a very versatile or focused gang. The only consistent weakness I see comparing Venators to other gangs is their relatively slow speed (3-5" across all statlines) and fairly expensive (45 points for a hunter that starts with tightey-whiteys and a smile, no juves equivalents). I ran a minimum of mesh armor and a lasgun (45+15+15=75); not crushingly expensive, but not cheap for my least expensive fighters either. I'm not sure if tweaking the rarity access (one of the limiting factors, varies by role) would help or some other limitation would be appropriate if it was felt they needed to be adjusted.

I expect I'll be there, either for necromunda or a board game.