McNathanson

Sounds like you used him well. I don't know about 8th but in past editions the trick has always been to be able to identify the combats he can threaten to win, and put him in position to force your opponent to think hard to avoid a mistake… usually something opens and you can combo up or just take a softer target solo. Fast, hard hitting, tough to kill units are always good, almost regardless of cost, because a good player can use them to focus on opponents errors. It's much harder to play the perfect battle line than to spot the weakness in it.

Awesome Jim, I'm happy to hear one of my favorite players is dusting off the minis! Recently doing a little of the same myself :)

:lol:

From the organized way they prepped and the thoughtfulness of their rules pack I suspected this was a first class event. I am glad it sounded as fun as I imagined it would be :) I am doubly sorry to have missed it! Great recap. I'm curious how much of your points garnered were from your Dragon and General? You didn't talk about what his effect was… I suspect he cleaned up quite a bit of vulnerable points?

Good call RD, people should be out driving today only if absolutely necessary (e.g. beer run).

I honestly believe the wrong turn you took was where you said, "People should play what they want to play." I get your motivation and it's cool. But really, no, some people need to be gently introduced to the idea that making sure his (or her) OPPONENT has a fun game is just as much his job as having a fun game himself is. If he's somebody for whom the definition of fun is mowing down his opponent, then he needs to change that! And if he can't, then he needs to find another group to play with. That's just my hard-learned advice from years and years of competitive gaming… it's the concept that led to the inception of the OFCC. Warhammer is not a game where it's easy to adjust up or down to match your opponent, because of the investment in building an army up. And in many other ways, Warhammer is not a game that is conducive to competitive play. Magic the Gathering is a great venue for venting your inner competitive nerd. By contrast, Warhammer is a great venue to learn to enjoy your own army's successes, as well as your opponent's successes. Don't adjust up, teach him how your group plays, and teach him to care about his opponent's enjoyment as much as his own! It's your chance to save a nerd :) As always with anything I write, just my 2 cents... Nathan

"MARITAL COMBAT!" FIGHT! Actually the roads are still pretty bad and I'm probably going to err on the side of not driving since I'd be brining my daughter with me. So, me neither! Which gives me more time to work on painting

I'm game to make the drive too… I'll just avoid main roads to avoid the horrible portland drivers!

Last night I finished up the last of my movements trays (for now) and got the bases done on my Black Guard (I also decided to paint an emblem on their standard since it was too plain; I like how the little red scorpion turned out!): Today I based the Hydra, and started re-creating my metallic greens. I got the first and second layers right, now working on the highlight layer… went easier than I expected, knock on wood :)

I've read older rumors (2013) ranging from Wood Elves are next, then 9th Edition, then Bretonnia, all the way to Wood Elves and Bretonnia being axed entirely! Anybody know what the "latest greatest" is? There's so much conflicting info out there and I have no idea which sources are historically reliable vs. unreliable.

BTW since I can't make the tournament, I apologize for taking up your time but I really did appreciate the discussion. Thanks especially MexicanNinja and Fixxer… you both made great points and it was helpful to read your thoughts on this. If you're curious, I had made the following changes: Lord - Ogre Blade, Ring of Hotek, Charmed Shield, Ironcurse Icon - my thinking here is that the Crown of Command was only really there for solo charges by the Lord out of his unit, because otherwise I wouldn't choose to charge my CoKs into a losing combat… they are my only serious "should be able to win most combats" unit. So out with the Crown. And, I realize that if I want to be able to take on Big Bad Enemy Heroes, the Black Amulet is a great choice. But instead of trying to take them head-on, I decided I will try to work around them, and instead, make the rest of my army more durable. The Ring goes a long way to keeping both my CoKs and Black Guard on the table. So in with that. That left me 10 points to give him some increased survivability. Charmed Shield is a steal for a model in a unit that likely only sees his first hit in a challenge… and with 5 points the IronCurse Icon is a great item in a unit of 10 models costing what the CoKs do… even if it just saves one guy every few games, it has more than paid for itself. Quick question speaking of the Charmed Shield: how do people generally work out the mechanics of that in a multi-hit scenario (say a challenge where my opponent got 3 hits)? I imagine my opponent would roll to hit, then before rolling to wound, I would roll the 2+ and remove one die from the hits. But there are other ways it could be played especially if there were other item rules in play that I'm not aware of… what do you guys do? After that change to the Lord, I had the Dawnstone back to give to my BSB, along with the Sword of Might and Enchanted Shield… so, done. I also had 10 points left and gave the L4 the Seed of Rebirth, figure it works out to around 1 more wound on average, a better expenditure of points (given that 10 isn't enough to add a model to any of my units) than say a herald for my Dark Riders or whatever. Anyway that's all the changes I had made coming up to the Black Sheep Brawl. I'm really bummed I won't get to play, getting in a bunch of games against different armies would have been really fun and instructional! I'll just have to find a way to make it to some Ordo game nights, but it ain't the same as a tournament setting! Have fun you lucky dogs ;)

Well damn, it's official: I have to stay the weekend in Finland and won't get back home until the following Monday, so I won't be home in time for the tourney. Guess I'll go jump in an ice hole instead. Good luck everyone and thanks Iraf and co. for being flexible with my attempt to attend! NEXT TIME!!

Iraf I sent my list in txt format, then I saw your note to LoF that you prefer .docx, .xlsx, or .pdf. I'll re-send as .pdf in just a moment!

Thanks, really appreciate it!

Thanks again guys for the great discussion! I spent a little quality time with my little friend army builder, and came out with a list I really like! I focused on increasing the survivability of my units, because I love them. I kept the unit sizes as is, and just messed with magic items a little. I think it'll be fun! I've finalized my list and sent it to Iraf so we'll just see how it goes (still hoping I can attend the Brawl!) Hope to game with you guys sometime soon, Nathan

Yes please bring Ellie, I'm sure they'd have fun! Ellia has lots of legos and there is plenty for them to do. Pizza it is, I also have a LOT of beer in the fridge (everyone, including me, brought it for the Superbowl), so don't worry about drinks either. Just shoot me a text when you're on your way over; seeya Saturday! Nathan

Great thanks!

Thanks guys. MN I think you're right, the CoKs really become a totally different unit at 5 models. And I think they look a lot cooler at size 10, too… just more like a "centerpiece" unit. So to fit the Reapers, I'd have to drop the BG. Despite the fact that they aren't super tough especially at 14, I'm not gonna do that, they are my favorite models and the reason I first built up my Dark Elf army back in 2003! So I think I'll just have to do without my Reapers… if I play someone with a lot of low-AS stuff, or with war machines I can't get to, oh well, I will just count on good old luck and play skill :) Fixxer that's a great reminder. Don't worry though, I'm not looking to optimize for victory. I hope my choices make that obvious. I think in a DE list built to win games, I would have no Darkshards, Corsairs, or Black Guard at all. I would have Dark Riders in units of 10 as my core, an L4, Warlocks, and a pair of Hydras. I might have Cold One Knights as a threat but probably instead would have a pair (or 3) of Chariots. Etc. So my army really is in no way built to be a winner. Just like back in 2003 when I first picked up the Dark Elves (and they kinda sucked) I'm trying to make it fun, make it look like an army, and build it for interesting games. That's why I phrased my question the way I did. I didn't ask "how can I make it better?" I said "I also would like to not find that I have no answer for a lot of common threats." I think MN's advice regarding low AS armies was right to that point. 

Like he said, I asked! Anyway, those of you who played back when I played know I'm not out to be no-fun to play, or to build a list that plays itself, etc. Just making sure I don't have a giant gaping hole against the current meta that'll make my games uninteresting :)

 Thanks for the feedback,
 Nathan

Iraf do you mind if I submit a list with a "tentative" attendance status? I have only one (used to have two) conflicts now keeping from going, and if that clears I can come! Is that alright?

Thanks guys, Iraf: I'll definitely be playing Dark Magic for my lore. MN: I didn't note down the exact mundane items, but they all have the right armor to get to 1+ AS (SDC, shield, HA where needed). And I forgot to note that the Dark Riders have RXBs :) I'll make those edits. As for the magic item combos, I like the Black Amulet too, and that would free up the Dawnstone for the BSB. Seems like a good change. Standard of Discipline is a great point, I'll see if I can fit it after the above adjustments. Finally I totally agree if I had 200 more points I'd get a pair of Reapers. I looked hard at how to get them in before even posting this list. I don't know how to do it… the Core is at Minimum, I love my "Manticore" model (converted Fell Beast from LotR), my BSB and General seem necessary… and I'd hate to remove the Black Guard, they're my favorite models in the army. The only real way I saw to do it was to drop the Cold One Knights from 9 to 5… I've been flopping back and forth on that one. Hmmm. How important do you think the 2nd ranks of CoKs is? I feel like dropping them to 5 just makes them SO vulnerable to shooting!

So one of the two conflicts I had for the Brawl has gone away, and I'm down to one… which means there's a chance I can go after all! Having only played a few games of 8th, I need your guys' advice on whether this list will be reasonable at an "all comers" tournament. I don't mind losing so I don't want some sort of gimmicky WAAC list, but I also would like to not find that I have no answer for a lot of common threats! Your advice, please and thank you! Dreadlord on Cold One - 1+ AS with Dawnstone (LA, SDC, Shield, Cold One) - Ogre Blade - Crown of Command L4 Sorceress on Dark Steed - Cloak of Twilight - Dispel Scroll BSB on foot - 1+ AS with Luckstone (HA, SDC, Enchanted Shield) - Sword of Might - Potion of Toughness (I'm weird like that) Master on Manticore with Scaly Skin - 1+ AS (HA, SDC, Shield) - Lance - Black Dragon Egg 16 Darkshards, SB, Mus - shields - flaming attacks banner 20 Corsairs, FC - +1 movement banner 5 Dark Riders, Mus - shields - RXBs 14 Black Guard, FC 9 Cold One Knights, FC - re-roll failed Ld Banner (I hate failing stupidity!!) War Hydra with Fiery Breath

Joel traded me his Beastmen for a home theater computer I built. I'm going to eBay them, listing Saturday I think. Are you looking? I can give you first shot if so.

"Simple static electricity"?!?!? Static electricity (along with magnets) is MAGIC!!

Sounds about right, haha! See you at 4! PS: 2400 pts, yes!