McNathanson

Stoked to see Iron Breakers in a list! Edit: Iron DRAKES but whatever, I love those models!! Edit AGAIN: would love to see 20 of the Irondrakes and 10 Miners (or none!) because the Miners look so much worse than the Ironbreaker models IMO. But at least you got some of them in there :)

Cool MN, now when we play Bretonnia versus Dwarves, we know how to play it :P

Thanks RoG. That's pretty conclusive!

Well that's pretty compelling :)

MexicanNinja don't get too entrenched… make sure you read the rules for Look Out Gnoblar before making up your mind, if you can, because I *think* the ONLY thing it does is allow an Ogre Character to get a Look Out Sir from 3 Ogres… it does nothing else! So if Look Out Sir worked the way you are saying, I think that the Look Out Gnoblar would have NO effect. And OK was written after the BRB. To me that's pretty compelling; if the arguments above don't do it for you, maybe that does? PS: I know we need the Look Out Gnoblar text, I just don't have it handy :) I'm just saying don't make your mind up until you've read it!

Wait I think I get what you're saying. Are you saying the "and so on" in the above rules quote includes Look Out Sir requirement for 5 non-champion, non-character models of the same troop type? I might buy that argument, except why then would the Ogre Kingdom Look Out Gnoblar even exist? If I'm not mistaken, the Gnoblar reduces the number of models required for Look Out Sir from 5 to 3. The OK book came out after the 8th ed BRB. So to me, that makes it clear that "and so on" does NOT apply to Look Out Sir. What do you think MN?

I think you said it well RoG, albeit more passionately than I would have... but you always had a more dramatic flair to your posts! It's part of why I love you, haha! It boils down to this for me: everything is better when we're playing by rules that are set up ahead of time, instead of unspoken or implied. With a proper rules set, there isn't any of this grey area that we bandaid-fix with sports score, dice offs, etc. And both players are free to do their best within the rules without feeling like they're being a douche! Additionally, I think the varied responses to this thread alone shows why "don't worry because nobody does that" doesn't really fly. I like the house rule proposed by RoG. Anyone see any issues with it straight off? If not, I'll just try to use that in a few games, and see if anything comes up! Thanks, Nathan

How about painting? I firmly believe that the larger Ogre models can be painted quite well even by painters with less than Scott Steady (I just coined that) hands. They are relatively relaxing to paint compared to small finicky things like skinks, or scales. Of course, I've seen decent looking Lizard armies that were mostly washed/drybrushed. But if you prefer layered highlights, Ogres are a lot easier to paint than most.

"Rank-and-file" just means "non-champion" in this case… the rank bonus isn't relevant to Look Out Sir! as far as I can tell.

Where does the rank come in? Is that in a FAQ or something, or is it elsewhere in the book?

Base size doesn't matter, it's unit type. So yes, to protect him, you need a unit of five or more models of Monstrous Cav within 3", or he needs to join a unit of Monstrous Cav of 5 or more models! "If a lone character is hit by a shooting attack of any kind (including shots fired using ballistic skill, templates and so on) a 'Look Out Sir!' roll can be attempted, provided there is a friendly unit consisting of five or more models of the character's troop type within 3 inches." - WFB 8th ed. p97 "If a character is hit by such an attack, and he is in a unit of at least 5 rank-and-file models (excluding the champion, if there is one) and he is of the same troop type as the unit, then his controlling player is permitted to make a 'Look Out Sir!' roll to save him from harm. This works exactly as the 'Look Out Sir!' rule described for unit champions on page 93. Simply put, on a roll of 2 or more, the hit does not strike the character, but instead is allocated to a rank-and-ftle model. If there are less than 5 rank-and-ftle models, the character does not get a Look Out Sir! roll and is hit." - WFB 8th ed. p99

So I'm not sure how to play this. Neither way makes more or less "sense" to me since a magic banner that makes you move faster could work any number of ways. What's confusing to me is that you determine if the charge succeeds or fails BEFORE the character leaves the unit. So imagine a M4 character (M5 with banner) charges at a unit 10.5" away. At the time the charge distance is rolled, the character has +1M, right? So he rolls a 6, for a total of 11", and the charge is successful. But then of course he leaves the unit and immediately loses the +1M… so does he now FAIL the charge that he just a moment ago was going to make? Please don't get the idea that I'm trying to "get an edge" or something… all armies can take this banner, after all. I just want to know how this is played so I play it right :) Thanks, Nathan

Forget about the house rule for OFCC. I'm in no place to make that happen, even if I wanted to. The point was to make a house rule that could be used at a gaming event (even just "game night") to easily eliminate conga lines without taking anything good away. Sure we can count on everyone's good graces, but that's what we should do IF there is no "win/win" rule to fix it, right? I mean, why leave gaps if there's a simple and elegant fix that doesn't take away anything good? And oops, I think my straw man idea got taken too seriously! It was just an example, and MexicanNinja already gave several good reasons why minimum full-rank frontage is a bad idea when he said, "I use the tactic to shrink or expand my frontage when in combat to negate counter charges or to force a charge to my front rather than a flank." Good enough for me. So: any suggestion for an elegant way to eliminate conga lines, without taking anything good away at the same time?

Right, that's why I'm thinking of suggesting a house rule in advance! Working things like this out mid-game is just asking for negative energy :)

Wouldn't Ogres have to form just 3 wide? But I see your point: MC or MI might want to run 2x2 to get more attacks against narrower models like chariots. Hmm. Maybe the "Junk Punch™ Rule" is the best option :) BTW for the record I fully expect that nobody I play with would actually do this, but I just wondered if there we be a clean and elegant house rule to fix it from being a potential source of un-fun (say, at OFCC or something). Maybe just require ranks (where possible) for infantry or cavalry models (agreed not Fast Cav)? Are there stubborn and/or unbreakable multi-wound models for which a conga line is advantageous?

What would be a good house rule to fix the stupid "1 model wide Black Guard unit with a 1+ AS BSB in the front" play? Obviously I don't have to do it (and I don't), but wondering if anyone has come up with an elegant house rule to make conga lines go away? I was thinking, for example, that it might be cool to require units to form full ranks if possible. Does it remove anything good from the game if you don't allow narrow formations?

Sounds really useful! Can you send it to me in .pdf form? I'll PM you my email addy.

I'm done with the Hydra, it's not my favorite model and the mold is messy, but it's good enough for now. It doesn't look as ultra-orange in person but I didn't want to bother too much with photoshop :) Next up, I'm going to try to finish the Cold One Knights unit!

I'm curious what's on it? I've been thinking of putting together a cheat-sheet on probabilities for reaching a given charge range on 2D6, 3D6, and a few other things.

It's a FAQ item, I believe. I think Horde-o-Seaguard described the FAQ ruling.

So I know this is a question as old as time, but specifically for this OFCC, can a Bretonnia BSB use an Enchanted Shield? Army Builder says yes, and GT lists I've seen on the web say yes, but I don't want to irk anyone if this is not a well-accepted configuration. Tell me, tell me!! Thanks, Nathan

Oh, gotcha!

Looks very Dwarfy! I look forward to giving it a go next time we get to play! Why 2500? Isn't the next "big thing" the OFCC at 2800? Or am I out of the loop? :)