SPaceORK

2 hours ago, Lyraeus said:

Yes and then you lose that unit. It seems strong and it is. It will definitely keep mid table players at mid table but smart players will have plans. 

 

Killing isn't the only thing to do. It is important but making such a move can easily cost you 2 Marked for Death Points and a Reaper on its own while maybe giving you 1-2 marked for death points

If it's a wash on points how would you feel about a list that lost its loota squad against a ynnari list that lost its spears. I would feel very comfortable. If that was your way to deal with spears one would MFD them as well. And MFD spears player may play a touch more conservative with them allowing for other units to be targeted. I would imagine you would deepstrike boyz next to the reapers if possible as well.

@Lyraeus pretty sure you can use Showin' off first, then the specialist one, all with more dakka and have the 5-6's generating more shots on all three shooting phase with the relic SAG.

1 hour ago, Lyraeus said:

All good points. Multiple Shokk Attack Guns are great but not fantastic. I honestly wonder if they have a diminishing return. 

I mean maybe? But on the turn your not triple tapping it's just 4d6 shots total. Which seems solid. They are for really peeling wounds off hard targets. And they are great against custodes which I guarantee you'll see 

The biggest thing about the relic vs the normal isn't the heavy 2d6 vs heavy D6 it's the fact that the relic does Mortal Wounds in addition to normal damage on that rare 11+ strength roll vs just Mortal Wounds from the normal. 

Which is why you save a reroll for the strength dice. If you get a 5-6 on either dice you go for the 11+ and destroy almost any unit. Didnt do the maths but I cant see a 3++ Castellan survive double tap or triple.

 

Mad Dok increases my number of saved models by extending their life span but it's still a test. 

Yea I understand that. And when you have a large number of models it does work. But is saving 20 guys worth the 40ish attacks you lose for having squads under 26-30 boys? Try it for sure. But orks, AM and 200 termagaunts are a thing in the meta.

Bad moon SAG's are interesting but I prefer Deathskulls. That reroll to hit, that reroll to wound and thst reroll on the damage roll is just simply fantastic. Making the characters obsec and a 6++ is great. 

I would be inclined to agree on a singular SAG, but if you have three and one is the relic and you use the relic one as a second antitank loota squad, you want access to both double tap stratagems.

 

 

Might wanna look at AOS tree people for plants n tree branches. And isn't there a gw vine kit?

3 hours ago, Ish said:

Define "near."

Well I'm only 4 hours away...  and that's "near".

5 hours ago, paxmiles said:

I do wish GW would update power levels when they update points. They kinda do this when they release new unit sheets or replace the index/codex.

Really no need. Power level is for people who dont really care if the game is fair. If it's close enough that's good enough for power level.

Alrighty... since this is for the guardian cup, which is a decent competitive level event, and I assume your goal is to have fun but win more than you lose I'll make suggestions with that in mind. I also am going make the assumption  that you can either buy or make models somewhat quickly.

Up those shokk attack gun numbers. And put them in the blood moons battalion and make it the specialist detachment. Because of you I've come to see shokk attack guns as awesome, jam 3 in, 1 as the relic an laugh as you "vlorrp" things.

KFF doesn't care what detachment it is in. It'll protect anyone.

Shave the kombi-rokkits. If you add more shokk attack gunz (which can be character hidden, shoot just as many shots but with rerolls of 1's) you dont need them. Which gives you enough points for your other problem. Not enough boys. Those squad need to be as close to 30 as points allow. 20 or less means 20 attacks left off the table.

Not a fan of mad dok. I feel he could be more storm boys. I have other idea but that would really mess with what your doing.

26 minutes ago, Ish said:

‘Stealers do make a very effective DISTRACTION CARNIFEX! unit however...

And 3x20 of them makes delicious biomass for the hivemind.

34 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

Agreed about Tau. 

 

The issue is you have to spend SO MUCH firepower to kill what Ynarri have. Sure we ignore much of their negatives but even a more dakka 25 squad of loota getting 75 shots should only deal about 20 wounds which is great but a good ynarri player won't give that to you easily 

Except they dont  have a choice? 48" range and da jump means that 400 point loota blob kills the 350 point shining spear blob, that if left unchecked, will destroy you. And 20 wounds is enough to kill them by 2 wounds. 

To be fair most people have been using 2x9 shining spears though. But still, they have to deal with a extremely "mobile" army that hits hard and doesn't care about the eldar shenanigans.

19 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

Heh... Heh... Whoops. Did I give my hand away? I don't even get comments on my list! 

No I actually  didnt look at that list yet. You have previously said stuff about it and I felt it was to random. Then the relic happened. And being bad moons plus the other double tap stratagem. So as far as I can tell you can shoot 6d6 shots at 7/-5/d6 for 6 cp, generating additional shots on 5-6, rerolling 1's. As well as an additional 2d6 shots from the other two shokk gunz. So you can use the shokk guns for knights and similar then lootas for anything else. 

6 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

I don't know about auto lose. Shining spears kill the troops rather easily and if you can wipe masses of Drones off the table they don't have much to survive the Dark Reapers. 

Lootas still need Los and a good roll to bypass the buffs the ynarri get. 

Dont ever shoot with lootas at a wave serpent... I have done the math... It's NEVER WORTH IT!!! 

I mean tau have no chance against Ynnari/Alaitoc. To many negatives to hit for a bs4 army. No staying power against tanky/shooty/choppy units like shining spears. Reapers destroy riptides especially with fire and fade. And the army can clear drones quickly.

On the other hand orks dont care about the negatives to hit. Especially the lootas. With sheer weight of dice they will kill the spears. And with Da Jump they can reposition easily. Plus eldar just dont have the shots to deal with that many wounds.

I do think GSC will be a great counter to loota orks because they can shut down the opening turn of loota shooting and clear grots turn one.

It's not finished but after I based the last 20 catachans the army is getting much closer to being finished. 1300+ points of knights makes it easy to finish a army.

And I bought more orks... cause I reassessed the shokk attack gun and the use of a 10/20 shoota/choppa boys because of @Lyraeus. Probably going to change the whole list I was using for orks.

27 minutes ago, Andrewgeddon said:

Yep, with either hammers or picks.

I'm considering a Tyranid detachment, but a spearhead with a lot of Carnifexs.... or whatever the plural for Carnifex is.

Assuming that Acolytes DO land at 7ppm, I'm curious if we even need Genestealers? Seems they do similar jobs, but one fills a troop slot.

I feel you dont need the stealers in GSC. You do want them with nids. Because you can "throw" a squad a turn at them.

I feel you do want Aberrants for GSC for sneaky charges, if the ambush works similar.

Mostly I think your taking GSC for cp, screens, the mind control ability the magus has, the agents of vect stratagem and unlocking AM. So a ton of utility, which is great. And it fits that they are sending in the AM and nids to do the heavy listening while they hide in the shadows.

2 hours ago, Lyraeus said:

Depends. Ynarri are notoriously difficult to pick secondaries from and they make up a good portion of the field this year I hear. 

 

It all depends on what you face

Ynnari doesn't feel like a safe choice with the amount of lootas running around. 

And ynnari feels like a auto lose for tau. Hope you dodge em while the orks eat em.

4 hours ago, Andrewgeddon said:

Apparently it was confirmed on today's streamed match that Genestealers do not get <CULT-SECT>. Just fine for me, I've got 20 Aberrants and only 8 Genestealers, lol

Well its assumed you'll put the 'stealers on your nid battalion.

Aberrants are the beefy cc guys right?

3 hours ago, Lyraeus said:

Focus on killing a thing or killing more and holding a thing. Worry about secondaries as the game progresses. You are likely not going to be tabled quickly but remember things like Genestealers are a thing and they will multi charge you

You kinda wanna pick secondaries that you can score easily. Reaper, kingslayer, etc.

1 hour ago, WestRider said:

GSC should be almost as good for that themselves. The list Spork mentioned still has two Battalions for CP easily.

Indeed. And "guardsmen" squads at 20 I believe with better LD. Definitely useful tools within the 4th "mega" faction.

I guess just tau and necrons are left in the cold without any allies cause orks dont need em. Although it would be cool to have a mercenary ork detachment per AM faction. Or AM detachment in a Tau army. Man... necrons should learn to make friends instead of putting them in Pokeballs. 

5 hours ago, Lyraeus said:

Twitch most likely. I would have to do some research but they will likely aim to get on the Twitch Front Page like Charity Hammer did

99% it is on GW's twitch channel. Which is why all models in the top 8 must be gw only. No 3rd party on camera.

6 hours ago, Chikin said:

What is vect?

It was the best stratagem in the game for awhile. But what Fluger said is correct. Its basically a counter-stratagem stratagem. But with some pretty harsh costs. Only once a game, 4cp.

The GSC one is only 3cp and multiple use. But that will be faq-ed soon.

5 hours ago, Andrewgeddon said:

Has this been confirmed somewhere that Genestealers don't get the Cult-sect benefits?

From the info I seen, which allegedly came from the book, on the Competitive 40k fb page genestealers do not. I would say it's an attempt to have GSC players field something other than genestealers.

6 hours ago, Lyraeus said:

They would need a flyer group for the vultures though. So no loyal 32 for vect cp

Doesn't matter. Only half cp, rounded up from AM detachments with GSC.

They get agents of vect at 3cp, gsc genestealers dont get chapter tactics, and guard allies only generate half cp with no named characters or chapter tactics.

So I think we are going to see minimum battalion of gsc for vect and triple vulture going with a battalion of nids filled with genestealers. That list lost nothing and just got better.

48 minutes ago, Ish said:

She’s a beauty... Now, confess, how much time did you spend running around the room with her making vroom-vroom-woosh noises?

Brrrrrt-brrrrrt-brrrrrt noises and about 4 times at 3 or 4 seconds each.

Ehh... its "done". I see lots of other things I could finish up on this guy but it's good enough for table top.

7 minutes ago, Ish said:

Or use a Rhino.

Well yea.. but this one has a rocket!

1 minute ago, paxmiles said:

Could be fun to paint them as castle walls...

Use the vindicators dozer blade, sculpt the castle wall top bits. I think they are wide enough that the dozer blade could form a wall.