SPaceORK

29 minutes ago, Lord Hanaur said:

Because of the Green Tide Stratagem and Da Jump combined ,Ork armies can afford to go with 2x30 man blobs (which is really 3).  Green Tide really makes it playable with two.  I don't know that you absolutely need 3 even though its never bad to have three.  As some would point out, there are alternative ways to reach the enemy in the saem amount of time you would otherwise with the third group.  So...

Green tide is expensive at 3cp though... 

I agree 2x30 is the sweet spot for orks. But he had 2x30 and 2x20. Might as well make it 4x30.

14 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

The issue is also how does he handle a knight let alone a Castellon?

Mek gunz, power klaws, rokkits in his current list. That and the Castellon shooting is garbage against orks. He kills a squad a turn maybe? While it's doing that, the orks are krump'n the guard screens and scoring points.

3 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

Not really. You are taking the results of renegade and maybe one or two other tournaments I haven't heard of yet and using that to make a hard and fast assessment of what it takes to win. 

 

Yes the list has many issues in an ITC format and a trip knights list will wreck its day, but it would still be fun to play and learn. 

 

Your suggestions completely gut his lists personality and replaces it. That list suggestion might not be fun or to flugers's enjoyment. 

 

Personally, play it and find what it works against find what it doesn't work against, tweak

Ok... no. 

First off, I'm making the assumption that this is for a tournament, like the one he just attended on the opposite side of another state. So if your going to drive all that way, you might as well give yourself the best opportunity to win games. Now winning isn't  everything and the experience itself is worth the drive, but winning is nice and worth the effort. That being said, you have three choices for a tournament with kultures. Bad Moons, Evil Sunz and Blood Axes.

Bad Moons for shooty detachments, mostly lootas. This however requires a huge amount of CP to dedicate to it. 

Blood axes simply for the CP regen. But it's hard to max out on cp and have a cp regen caddy because you only want him.

Which leaves us with Evil Sunz. They make everything better. Besides a select few units, orks want to be smashing face. And evil sunz enable you do so at a much higher %.

Second, I'm taking personal play experience, assessment of the units in the codex and tournament  results. And I dont agree with alot of the tournament choices either. They seem unneccessary. So when I say I like kommandos did I see that in a tournament? Yes. Did I play games both with and without them? Yes, and every time I didn't have them, I wanted them. The same goes with boyz squads at 25+models/under 25 models, rokkits, power klaw/big choppa, deff koptas, all the buggies, tons of grotz/no grotz, etc. The only thing I haven't played is kanz and dredds, because I can't see any way to make kanz good and I can see dredds have potential.

I would say orks is the only army, in all my years of playing that I actually cared to test other things other than the default optimized unit.

You say I gutted his list? I say I looked at what was already a great list and made tweaks on what math and my own personal experience says is better. What was the core of his list? It looked to me to be mek gunz/rokkits to deal with hard targets, boyz/stormboyz/kommandos to deal with soft targets. What do my suggestions do? Make the list have mek gunz deal with hard targets, boyz/stormboyz/kommados deal with soft. 

Can he play his current list exactly as is and do great with it? I think so, it's pretty darn solid. But he asked for suggestions. I gave him what I think would improve upon the current list he has. 

Also I dont know if trip knights would wreck either version. Both list have tons of body's making the objective game way easier. Orks vrs guard screens. Ha... we know how that'll go. That many power klaws/mek guns and/or rokkits? You can definitely put some work on the knights.

Just now, Lyraeus said:

We got popped out of Gorks Grin

Then noticed the fine krumpin goin' on with da 'umies and fish's and joined in?

2 hours ago, Lyraeus said:

Let's make something up! I want to do some now due to you. Besides it will help me think more orky

 

Let's brainstorm! 

 

So far there are Blood Angels, Orks, Tau, Admech, Deathwatch, Ultramarines, Imperial Guard, Crimson Fist, a second Tau player, am I missing anyone? 

Looks like the tau were trying to bring the greater good to the area and the entire imperium decided to say no. Then some orks noticed....

Just now, Lyraeus said:

In other words, his list is wrong and he should Just play swarm. 

His list is in weird place? Like it's almost horde but it's not exactly. Ork leadership and boyz buffs rely on numbers so maxing that out when your 85% already there seems like the best thing to do?

If this is for casual, then run it exactly as is and itll be great. For a tournament tweak it so it has the best chance to provide a positive outcome.

And I agree with most of his unit selections. Just a few are unnecessary (painboy) or need to be tweaked for tournaments. If you want kanz, might as well make em deff dreds and smash.

34 minutes ago, fluger said:

No thoughts on this?

For like a tournament?

Well the kulture should say Evil Sunz unless it's a dedicated Bad Moons loota detachment. Being able to squeeze 3" more with rerolls of charges enables so many charges.

So assuming the change to Evil Sunz then your warboss is fine, the boyz squads are fine. Probably should spend the 4cp to deepstrike them though.

Not a fan of the painboy. 6+++ in a 3" bubble? Naw, more grotz and boyz.

Stormboyz should probably be 30 man.  With a decent advance roll you can make the turn one charge.

Mek Gunz, Weirdboy, Kff are all fine.

Drop the koptas, make the boyz 30 man. This way you have a jump target.

Killa Kanz should just be more kommandos. Take the first squad to 15 and have two more ten man exactly  how you have them set up.

So with a bit of luck you have 30 stormboyz, 30 boyz charging turn 1. Turn 2 you have 90 boyz, 45 kommandos charging. 

Also the rokkits on the boyz squad should just be another mek gun. Auto hitting vrs needing 5's?

1 minute ago, apathy ales said:

The problem I run into is BA troop choices stink. We are a melee army, not a shooty army. As someone else said earlier, it really is a struggling faction right now (especially if you trying to play mono faction like I am). We have HQ's that hit hard (Mephiston, Lemartes, Libby Dread, Smash Captain, Dante, Asorath, the sanguinator) and elites, and at 500 points its near impossible to field any of my elites (death company and/or Sanguinary Guard). I will totally try and bring a less aggressive list for actual week one, but also, our HQ's just hit hard and zip aroynd the board (flying deadnaught!), so it's hard to not end up feeling like I'm just playing generic space marines. For what it's worth, I've only won 1 or 2 games ever (out of about a dozen) so I am used to having to bring some hard hitters, sorry if I over did it.

See ya Sunday!

-----tim g

I dont think anyone thinks you overdid it! 

1 minute ago, Ish said:

If you can field it in a Battle-Forged Detachment under the 500 Points limit, its kosher... But the “spirit” of the league was a slow-grow escalation to get people back into the game that have been out for a while or ease people into it who are new.

So, yeah, technically you can bring Magnus, Morty, Bobby G, or whatever... But maybe you shouldn’t?

Oh I'm not! But I was just thinking what I can do at 500. And I live 4 hours away so none of my douchey-ness could be done to y'all anyways.

3 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

No. Smash captains WANT that knight. Smash captains can just make Cestellons

This is true... the captain with 8cp would wreck most knights at 500. No screen to protect. Plus mephiston can also power up to about 5-7 attacks at s10 I believe. 

5 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Mephy, smashcaptain, 2x5 bare scouts, 1x5 primaris marines with rapid bolters, might have been more than 5 primaris marines.

Ohh... Mepy and smashcaptian should have done whatever they wanted to both tau and orks...

I do like a Riptide, 2x cadre fireblades and the rest of the points in firewarriors at 500..

2 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Week 1 is mono detachment and 500pts. We'll have 2 detachments by week 2, so it's not a big deal. And there are counters availible, TAU aren't helpless, but that BA smash captain was certainly something I hadn't considered when building my list. 

If it's a army in power armor itll have a smash captain. Such an excellent tool in a struggling army.

Mono detachment? So one could play Mortarian? Ohhh... Double T-sons princes and summon brimstones... Shield captain on dawneagle/3 bikes. 

I guess these are things that would be frowned upon..

2 minutes ago, apathy ales said:

Hay! What's going on here!?!?!

Can i get a coach (or two) too? 

Man, I'm gunna need an entirely new list for Sunday!

For what it's worth, I had 8 command points, so I had a few tricks to play with.

 

I dont know what your playing besides Blood Angel's with a smash captain!

But yea, I'm assuming its double smash + 3x scouts? Just raun those down Paxs throat cause he cant kill you and moral will make him run.

Lyraeus, at 500 with orks? Smash anything that's not a mob of boyz , decent of Angel's away and hope the scouts (I'm assuming) do enough wounds to clean up?

2 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

TAU, no smite... Otherwise, I totally agree. 

True but just about everyone else does...

Is the league only one detachment?

14 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

The 3+ save makes it hard so mass shots is the way to go

At the 500-1000pt level you can just smite him or give him the fear of smite.

@paxmiles Smash Captain could have an additional d3 attack as well, and attacks on death. But suppose you cant do all of that in 500.

1 hour ago, Ish said:

An older Librarian model has given up his life in service of the Ish-perium. Brother Buchmacher has taken up his blade.

Ahhh yes now I see it. Thank goodness.

I just want the terrain. Hopefully the bitz sites will have 'em.

1 hour ago, Ish said:

Librarian Lexicanum Detlef Buchmacher, attached to the Imperial Fists Fifth Company, responsible for compiling battlefield reports, intelligence analysis, and astropathic communication.

A work in progress, obviously.

Wut? This picture gives me anxiety.

Like does Ish prime their models? 

Do they prime just one part at a time?

Do they just live in complete anarchy and dont prime at all!?

36 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

I feel like the "couldn't" is meant to be a "could", that or the "do" is meant to be a "don't."

Otherwise, not really sure why having the sponsons would make this harder... Regarding cost, the above land raider is more like $41-ish, as it's $35.98 for the models and $4-5 shipping. Though the shipping cost doesn't increase by much if you buy 2 or 3.

 

Regarding converting sponsons, lascannons are a really common extra bit for SM players. Redeemer would be super easy, as flamers in 40k are mainly a tube, some wire, and metal mesh. Getting 6 bolters for crusader sponsons would also be pretty simple. And they don't need to look exactly like the GW one - the goal is more that it looks like you bought a full $80-ish land raider and decided to make more festive sponsons (because you are *obviously* crazy wealthy and have the cash to burn on a full kit that's only a piece of your converted unit).

It would be more challenging to get the Hull Grav bits for the Land Raider Excelsior, but you might be able to get those as extras from a centurion kit.

I meant "could". I've had about 4-5 land raiders NoS so I have both Las and flamer options lying about.  I'd probably just do it as terrain for that price though. 

@paxmiles I'm clearly  dumb. I do own some land raider sponsons so I couldn't make one for about 35 ish.

13 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Are the links not working for you(?), treads are pictured.

I must have missed that. I went to the site a started looking around. Didn't see treads. Obviously I missed them.

@paxmiles no treads though... which will probably be just enough for them to make a profit on the tank.

4 hours ago, paxmiles said:

So does that mean you sold your TAU? Just because they were successful...

 

I mean kinda? I've never liked tau. Their looks, back story, models, everything. But I acquired a bunch in a trade. Not enough to make a decent 2k army but a decent amount and I added to them to make what I wanted. Well I played them and they kinda grew on me playwise.

However my intention had always been, fix them, add to them sell/trade them. So I crushed my play group a few times, started a bidding war and got a chaos army.

So now they are extremely happy, I'm kinda happy (I do love me some Magnus & Morty) and I came out way ahead on the deal (they knew they were getting the bad end of the deal but they still wanted it. I kinda didn't want chaos unless I was getting a good deal so... ehh).

5 minutes ago, Ish said:

Probably one of my favorite vehicles in the Space Marine motor pool, to be honest. I ran one or two with my Dark Angels for 5th and 6th Edition, despite the "collective wisdom" of the Internet telling me they were rubbish and they never disappointed me. I sold that army off to a friend year ago, but odds are good a Whirlwind or three will end up in my collection sooner or later.

Artillery and Imperial Fists just feel so fluffy together... 

And that Legion Basilisk is really sexy...

Get them!

I also really like the scorpius one too...

There is almost zero interest in my area for AT but I really want the models.

Like I almost want to make some sort of counts as army using knights as marines and warhound on up as dreads.

@Ish What about whirlwinds? They seem fun in a sm tank type list.