seapheonix Posted January 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Some considerations for those who are interested in attending. I've been discussing with Zen about the potential of using this as an experimental tournament to include both escalation and stronghold assault, as well as the dataslates and formations recently released. I would be interested in what you guys would have to say. In general with TSHFT I have not seen abuse of super lists, those who generally win have been good generals more then list builders with unfair advantages. If the consensus is to include the expansions in the tournament, the points adjustments to rankings would be held out until the conclusion of the tournament to see if there was an unfair advantage gained or throwing off of the balance. Also winner of the tournament would understand that the TSHFT invitational ticket would be for a tournament that still does not include the expansions and formations etc... If it is discovered that there is no overwhelming effect, points would be added in and rankings updated for those who have played in TSHFT before. I look forward to hearing what the opinion is out there. Thanks all, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgosaurusrex Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 I think Escalation and Stronghold Assault should be allowed. I have played several games and have not found a serious lack of balace. From what I understand of TSHFT, it is geared towards friendly and fluffy compositions, right? I think this is the perfect event to use Escalation. I am very interested in this tournament, but I have never played a TSHFT event before. I assume this is open to everybody and is not based on invitation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seapheonix Posted January 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 That is currently what I am leaning towards, but I will continue to listen to the people Yes the tournament is open to everyone. Being a TSHFT event you are recorded in the system so you can work your way through the ranks and of course the winner will get a ticket to the invitational which is usually a fifteen hundred point tournament. If you would like a spot just let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seapheonix Posted January 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Alright. Ruling on escalation and stronghold. I wrestled with this a bit over the weekend, trying to imagine D weapons in the games I was playing and at the same time get opinions from opponents. I found that most players felt confident in their lists ability to handle a single super heavy. Some with the exception of the eldar revenant Titan. My first thought was to exclude the revenant and the av 15 buildings, but I don't really agree with selective banning. So I considered changing the stats of D weapons, but then would you have to adjust the points? Would that still create the strong counter to 2++ re-roll? Having just felt the frustration of playing daemon flying circus I had a very recent impression of the frustration of being able to do nothing. My next thought was to limit the points allowed for lords of war, but again I felt I was selectively counting points to limit specific units. In a different post I have argued that D weapons and he new supplements simply changes the meta once more, and possibly to the better. It feels like quite a decision with no data from another tournament allowing everything as fair play, but I hope to find success in showing that while strong, perhaps the sky will not fall after all. Escation, stronghold assault, Internet codices, data fax sheets, formations, and the unique characters will all be allowed. So bring out your thunder hawk gunships, your macro cannons, and your cyphers with tau fire cadre support teams. Lets have a great tournament. Understanding again that the grand prize of tshft invitational will not include any of these experimental allowances. Also inclusion of adjusted points scores in the tshft rankings will wait to see if they are terribly unbalanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Internet codices, formations, What, exactly, is meant by these two? I'm presuming you don't just mean "any codex written by someone on the internet," since that means everyone has ten million T10 W10 2++ rerollable models with Turbo-Lasers on them. Formations, to my knowledge, only exist in Apocalypse- are you referring to stuff like the Tau Support Cadre and the like? I would argue against the decision to blanket-allow everything, but obviously this is something you've given thought to already, so I doubt I'll shift your mind. I suppose we'll get to see just what the game looks like with all this stuff included. Edit: it would be a good idea to issue some rulings with regards to Void Shields, since they are a bit confusing. Namely: -With Projected Void Shields, if you place a blast so that it hits five models inside the Shield, does that cause five hits on the Shield or one? -Can you take cover or invulnerable saves for a Void Shield? Does it matter whether these saves come from terrain, wargear, abilities or psychic powers? -Does Tank Hunter function against a non-vehicle unit benefiting from a Projected Void Shield? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Trainer Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Strength D weapons are not as one sided as Apoc, but they are close. In Apoc once a team is down 1-2 D weapons compared to the other side, it starts to go downhill quick. Haven't played escalation yet, but watched 3 games played out. And the same process showed up. Once one Str D weapon was down, the other side started cleaning house with impunity, let alone 'not taking one' is just sad. AV 15 also makes the baby jesus cry. If you want power hungry include it, if you want more balance, don't, my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seapheonix Posted January 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Thanks for the responses and the questions guys. What, exactly, is meant by these two? I'm presuming you don't just mean "any codex written by someone on the internet," since that means everyone has ten million T10 W10 2++ rerollable models with Turbo-Lasers on them. Formations, to my knowledge, only exist in Apocalypse- are you referring to stuff like the Tau Support Cadre and the like? I would argue against the decision to blanket-allow everything, but obviously this is something you've given thought to already, so I doubt I'll shift your mind. I suppose we'll get to see just what the game looks like with all this stuff included. Edit: it would be a good idea to issue some rulings with regards to Void Shields, since they are a bit confusing. Namely: -With Projected Void Shields, if you place a blast so that it hits five models inside the Shield, does that cause five hits on the Shield or one? -Can you take cover or invulnerable saves for a Void Shield? Does it matter whether these saves come from terrain, wargear, abilities or psychic powers? -Does Tank Hunter function against a non-vehicle unit benefiting from a Projected Void Shield? Internet codices, was supposed to be downloadable codices. Like the Inquisitor codex, there was a tournament or two I saw that was limiting that. Formations: Yes as in fire support cadre or the space marine flyer trio. I've had a good mixed bag of support and consternation over allowing everything, but I thought I would give it a whirl for the above stated reasons. I'll admit I'm interested in seeing what comes of it. As to the void shields, I appreciate you bringing it up. First for a question not asked. Size of the void shield generator: Since there is no official model for them, I would like people to target the size of the lower level of the bastion. First floor section. For those with non-imperial armies, if you want to create a nice centerpiece model out of a void shield generator, simply stick to the same basic area of table occupied, and it will be accepted. I would consider the projected field to be similar to a very large building. So all of my thoughts and rulings are stemming from that. Projected field vs blasts: Whatever shell or impact hitting the field would be striking a single blow. The blast contacting the wall itself, similar I imagine to a unit inside a bastion. Even though the blast covers those within the bastion, you still have to make it through the walls.. If there are models outside of the void shield, they do not receive this protection, and it would be those number of hits, plus the one for striking the shield. Invul saves and cover saves for the shield: Once again, you cannot give a building cover or an invulnerable save, therefore no cover for what is already a protective shell. Tank hunters versus Projected field: Continuing to see the shield as a very large building, buildings are treated similar to transports and thus are effected by tank hunters. I imagine that a unit that is good at finding the weak points in tanks, or buildings, they would also excel at the proper way to attack a power field. Are forgeworld lords of war not in the escalation book allowed: Units in the updated imperial armor 2013, or escalation will be allowed. You must provide your opponent with a copy of those rules and any weapon rules before hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Glad to see the responses here; it looks like we Corvallians may be bringing up a crew to visit again. As to the void shields, I appreciate you bringing it up. First for a question not asked. Size of the void shield generator: Since there is no official model for them, I would like people to target the size of the lower level of the bastion. First floor section. For those with non-imperial armies, if you want to create a nice centerpiece model out of a void shield generator, simply stick to the same basic area of table occupied, and it will be accepted. If you hadn't seen, a short time back one of the GW guys had made a posting about the general size of the Void Shield Generator, saying that it should be roughly the same size as the Vengeance Weapon Batteries, which feels about right to me. Not to infringe upon your decision as the one organizing things, but a Bastion is a rather large piece of terrain. Invul saves and cover saves for the shield: Once again, you cannot give a building cover or an invulnerable save, therefore no cover for what is already a protective shell. I will point out that, with respect to buildings, this is not actually correct- buildings can have saves in the same way any other model can, although their larger size obvious makes gaining a cover save somewhat difficult. Of course, most special rules granting cover won't apply to a building, as they only work on units from their own codex, but some powers and wargear (Forewarning, Power Field Generator) can do so. Are forgeworld lords of war not in the escalation book allowed: Units in the updated imperial armor 2013, or escalation will be allowed. You must provide your opponent with a copy of those rules and any weapon rules before hand. This includes Lords of War choices in the .pdf on the Forge World website as well, I assume, provided they are accompanied by the appropriate rules? Edit: A couple of other questions. How does difficult terrain affect superheavy walkers and garganuan creatures, if at all? Also, can abilities that require LOS but are not shooting attacks (such as Coteaz's "I've Been Expecting You" or Anrakyr's "Mind in the Machine") be used from inside a transport vehicle, presuming it has fire points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seapheonix Posted January 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Had to go to work before I could respond to everything. I will catch up this evening, keep adding I those questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seapheonix Posted January 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 I had not seen that about the size of the generator. I think that just about matches what I was looking for. About 5 1/2" a side and 2 1/2" to 3" inches tall. I haven't seen anything previous to this that allows buildings to gain invulnerable or cover saves from a psychic power or ability. In fact in the TSHFT FAQ it is specifically spelled out that power fields and such do not have any effect on buildings. I will be following the TSHFT FAQ for everything that does not extend into the bounds of stronghold and escalation where there is no data. As to super heavy walkers and gargantuan creatures. It states in the escalation book that they both have move through cover. Fire points question I'm going to have another search through all the FAQs on the GW site, and in the stronghold book, but I believe they said much like psychic powers or overwatch, they will work from the fire point of a building or vehicle. I would suggest to everyone that you take a look at escalation, stronghold assault and the current FAQs for both TSHFT and GW, to get as much of a heads up on what might be ahead of you. TSHFT FAQ for convenience. http://bloghammer.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/FAQ.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 They have Move Through Cover, but unlike in 5th Edition, there's no actual rules for determining how a model with a 12" movement is affected by Difficult Terrain. (It's not hard to use the old "3d6, take the highest and double it" method from 5E, but that's not official and some people argue that they simply aren't slowed by terrain at all.) The "using abilities out of fire points" question has not been addressed by GW. It has existed since the very beginning of 6E. And just to confirm: will the Forge World Lords of War be allowed? I'm assuming so, since you're allowing both FW units and LoW, but you hadn't specifically answered that question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seapheonix Posted January 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Sorry, that was in another forum I replied to that earlier. Yes, if it has updated rules post escalation like the imperial armor 2013 updated book yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seapheonix Posted January 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 Only a dozen spots left for those interested in participating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 What is the schedule for the two days looking like, incidentally? Corvallis to Seattle is a bit of a trip, so it'd be good to know what time we need to be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seapheonix Posted January 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Thought I had put that in my first post. Doh. Must have been one of my drafts. Card kingdom opens at ten am. I'm going to have everything set up by then, so hopefully everyone will arrive, grab their packets and be sitting down to play. Games will be about three hours long with a lunch break after the first game. Likely wrapping up around eight day one, budgets in time for running late. Around five on Sunday day two. If there is anything I can do to help travelers out, let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 I will be curious on what round people concede or felt they should have. Maybe a stat for that would be good feedback. "Round 2: Revenant titan and Fortress of Redemption level'd by Tau Crisis teams/Longshanks tank, game over" OR "Round 2: Tau level'd by Revenant titan. Game over" Something like that. Wouldn't take long to collate. Just add it to the score sheet when they get turned in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seapheonix Posted January 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 That is a good idea. I'll try and ad that to the tourney packet. I'm interested to see how all the games go as well. Three hours is the time for rounds, but the accelerated damage potential could make them two hour games instead. There are a number of teams signed up that don't have any titans or strongholds. I'll be interested to see how they do as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seapheonix Posted February 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Correct, Forge world army lists will be allowed for this tournament. I'm trying to give all the options out there some play. I've been play testing against the feared revenant titan and will be posting battle reports as time allows for people to get an idea of escalation and strong holds effect on the game. As we close in on the end of this week, I would greatly appreciate it if people would send along a copy of their planned army lists. Doesn't need to be hard and fast, little tweaks are totally fine as you focus in for the tourney. It just helps me get a little bit ahead of the game on saturday so that everyone can walk in, set down their armies and start rolling dice. For those in the local area, I work directly across the water from card kingdom and would be happy on any given day to meet up after work and get a practice game in for the tourney. I can bring nids, eldar including super heavies and any proxy army you would like a chance to play against, just hit me up. Copying a post from another forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seapheonix Posted February 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Tournament is next weekend! Very excited for everyone to come out. There are still a half a dozen spots available. Most important details I need when you private message me is: Your name, (so I can enter it in my excell program ahead of time and have the first round paired when you get there.) A rough draft of your list: Doesn't need to be the finished copy for the tourney, I'm just looking to have a rough idea of what you are bringing to save me some time in keeping my notes, also so I can look up the rules to various titans, ork tanks, c'tan or whatever is being brought so I'm confident in my rulings. Minor reminders: Please bring enough copies of your list for everyone you are playing. I'll have a pad of paper for those who forget so you can write them out long hand. Please bring any attendant updated rules for your models, the translation from structure points to hull points is not always linear, make sure you have the current ones. I will have a set of template and apocalyptic templates on hand if you do not own any. I will do my best to have a copy of every current rule set for you to check against to be assured of current status. Card kingdom opens at 10am, both days, we will be in the mini's area and to the tourney room. Cheers, and I look forward to seeing you all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seapheonix Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Another update for all of those who may be lurking and still considering coming to the tournament. This is the last chance to win an invitation for the TSHFT invitational this season. Invitational will be the weekend May 31/June 1st. Prizes now have increased just a touch. The grand prize for this is the last super golden ticket... a totally free entry to the TSHFT invitational. Second prize will be the new version of the golden ticket...Half the price off at the TSHFT invitational. The balance of the entry fee will be divided up into prizes in the form of gift cards for card kingdom. Also, I have secured a private room for our lunch on Sunday, and I'm crossing my fingers that I'll have it for Saturday as well. This will be an express route for ordering food and beverages. In the tourney room Non-alcoholic beverages and to go food are allowed, but not so much on the delicious beer. I look forward to seeing you all there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seapheonix Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Whoops. May 17, 18 for the tshft invitational. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seapheonix Posted February 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 A link to the forum I'm going to be using to put up pictures and overviews of the battles throughout Saturday and Sunday. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/579757.page#6543088 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seapheonix Posted February 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 13 people have signed up. I have room for up to 9 more. At this point I'm closing the pre-registration. I haven't brought any extra tables, so the 9 spots will be first come first serve. Good luck to all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombking Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Well that was an interesting introduction to Escalation and Lords of War. Still not sure how to avoid/hide 50+ marines moving 6 inches (12 if in a Rhino) and still fire back effectively cause snap fire for my lascannons and missile launcher sure is not effective when the other guy has a monster can move 12" and throw giant templates 36" away and shoot a giant flame template 17" as well that are ap1 if I am lucky. The only thing I can think of is a Storm Raven or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seapheonix Posted February 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 A lot of lessons learned all the way around. I'll put up a post linking all the pictures and action shots if I haven't already. Thanks all who came out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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