Lances

[Brick Bungalow]

And other weapons that have a first turn strength bonus. 

 

Sorry if this has been covered already. 

 

These weapons seem seriously nerfed in 8th edition with the abundance of stubborn, steadfast and otherwise nigh unbreakable units. 

 

A pity because I think they are a neat idea. Charging cavalry and flailing wackadoos lend a dramatic touch to the melee phase. But breaking units on the charge seems to rarely happen anymore. So great weapons and halberds become the more logical choice since you will likely spend the game locked into a single combat. 

 

Any helpful tips for making such weapons useful again? 

[MexicanNinja]

It really depends. You obiously don't want to single charge 10 cav into a unit of 20 plus (unless you are certain you will win the grind). Now, help them out with a supporting charge unit like a chariot or monster riding character and now the outcome is much more in your favor.

 

Also, cavalry can be extremely hard to shift when fighting units who are S4 or lower. They have really good saves and can tie up a unit of 20 dudes for a round or two just by making armour saves.

 

The next question is what army is the cav coming from? 5 chaos knights with mark of khorne will slaughter most units of 20 plus in a few turns because of the amount of attacks they produce, solid S after the charge, and incredible armour save.

 

Cavalry is still very good. They are a bit harder to use in 8th (they were to overpowered in 7th) but when used correctly they can have game changing impacts. I guess if you narrowed down the type of cav, I could help you more.

[Raindog]

Brick,

 

Lances have a roll, but they are not the hammers of former editions. They do have a roll, but more a traditional cav in warfare. They handle cheap, flanking units and are good from hitting block troops in the flank as counter charges. Cav is also good at handling monsterous infantry. They cannot be stomped and do enough wounds to break them on the charge.

[Brick Bungalow]

I guess I'm wondering, are lances and flails a wise choice for an all-comers list when other weapons are available? Is there legitimate reason to choose them when other weapons are available for the same unit?

[MexicanNinja]

Yes, there are reasons to chose them. Lances on the charge are good for trying to

punch a hole through a smaller (3-4 unit size) of monstrous cav before they get to your lines. And they can punch though other cav as well. Do damage to monsters. Lances are effective, but knowing when to charge is the trick.

 

Flails are the tricky one. It depends on the unit, what the role of the unit is going to be, and how big the unit is going to be. Flails are great for a first turn punch to the face, but in the upcoming rounds (when the models revert to basic S) you need to ensure you did a ton of damage in the first round. I like flails though and if I still played empire I would be using a horde of flaggallents, if I played chaos I would take a horde of mauraders with flails and mark of khorne.

 

The thing to remember when picking a lance, all cav have different strengths and weaknesses. I.e. empire come with a 1+, lizardmen can hold the line better and pack a good save, dragon princes are only good on the charge (same with silver helms), blood knights and dark elf cav are great on the charge. So, you kind of need to know what your cav can do.