Re-visiting HK missiles.

[Guest]

Started using more combi-weapons on my squad leads (DA). I've been getting pretty solid use out of them, despite only a single shot per game.

 

Then it hit me, HK missiles are about as accurate and useful with the same cost. If I can justify combi-weapons, why not HK missiles? So, reconsidering vehicles with HK missiles. My army does have divination access, should it matter, so I can TL the HK missiles.

 

Thoughts on their use?

-Pax

[HeroZero]

Single shot str 8 ap 3. Good for a glance here in there.

Combi Weapons actually have a use. When you pop the combi- you have a purpose. Melta to absolutely kill a tank, flamer to rip out a infantry horde. Plasma to put down a terminator.

HK just don't have a justifiably good reason for inclusion.

[Guest]

Single shot str 8 ap 3. Good for a glance here in there.

Combi Weapons actually have a use. When you pop the combi- you have a purpose. Melta to absolutely kill a tank, flamer to rip out a infantry horde. Plasma to put down a terminator.

HK just don't have a justifiably good reason for inclusion.

Sort of true. Deal is that when you choose to include a combi-weapon over a regular bolter, you are assuming the instance where the combi-weapon is viable will arise. Some games don't see all the combi-weapons used or they just miss, this isn't much different than how the HK missiles function.

 

As for HK missile uses in 6th, a few come to mind:

-Searchlights require weapons being able to target the target you want illuminated. If the vehicle in question has the searchlight, but lacks weapons with the range to utitilize the searchlight, then there is value in an HK's inclusion. Example being a rhino with stock storm bolter, a target beyond 24" would be impossible to illuminate with this vehicle.

-HK missiles are niche in the unlimited range aspect, as most SM/IG vehicles have less than unlimited range. In this respect, they are comparable to combi-weapons as the combi-weapons are also niche weapons in function.

 

-Pax

[AbusePuppy]

I think there are two important differences between combiweapons and Hunter-Killer Missiles that basically define why one sees extensive use and the other does not. First of all, Combi-weapons are protected on a squad leader- usually he will be kept alive at the expense of other models, an option that HKM don't have, insuring that he gets to use his weapon at a prime moment. Second, the profiles for Combi-weapons are generally superior to that of a HKM- the Combi-Melta, with double penetration and AP1 is much more effective against heavy tanks and the Combi-Plasma/Grav get multiple AP2 shots that wound on 2s/3s. Compared to this, the Missile gets only a single shot that gets no bonus on the vehicle damage table, doesn't penetrate all types of armor, and has a 50% chance of not even getting to roll on the table even against the lowly Rhino.

 

Moreover, the HKM relies heavily on a strategy of alpha striking with vehicles, which is distinctly 5th Edition in flavor. Most armies don't want to run large numbers of vehicles that are needed to enable HKMs, and the presence of Night Fight (even with Searchlights) significantly cuts down on the ability to fire them efficiently.

 

I don't see the Hunter-Killer Missile as being unusable, but it's certainly not something I would generally consider. If it were available on different platforms, such as infantry or Land Speeders, it might see more use.

[chaoticJJ]

Can the hunterkiller missile shoot at Infantry or just vehicles? I can see near-end game where a captain is running away and I could assassinate him... Too bad Chaos doesn't get all the fun weapons of the regular space marines.

[Guest]

Can the hunterkiller missile shoot at Infantry or just vehicles? I can see near-end game where a captain is running away and I could assassinate him... Too bad Chaos doesn't get all the fun weapons of the regular space marines.

CSM is one of the armies I'd really want the HKs on. Especially if we could upgrade them with the warpflame gargoyles...HK missiles with soulblaze.

 

But, back to topic, yes, they shoot at any normal target as if they were a krak missile. They are one use, just like the combi weapon's non-bolter portion. They fire at the BS of the vehicle, which does make them less impressive for points on lower BS vehicles.

 

Abuse puppy, I do agree that being able to choose between the special weapon and the bolter is nice for infantry, but it is true that the HK missiles are availible on vehicles that already have pretty impressive shooting that they can fire in addition to the HKs.

 

I would really like to see an infantry mounted HK missile option, as that would be awesome.

 

As for characters with combi-weapons, that one is sort of true. With SM/DA having to pay 10pts to upgrade their sarge to a vet, I have been less keen on keeping my characters alive (unless I've given them additional gear, like unused combi weapons). This is especially true if opponent is geared to take advantage of challenges.

-Pax

[WestRider]

One of AP's main points is that Combi-Weapons are likely to survive to the point where you get to use them, while H-Ks will often get killed off before you get the chance. This is kind of a big part of it for me. At this point, I mostly like H-Ks on platforms that are likely to survive up until the point where they're going to want to fire them off. This basically means Scout Sentinels. On them, I'm still down with the classic Multi-Laser or Autocannon+H-K setup, if you're running IG and for some reason don't want to spend all your FA slots on Vendettas.

 

Outside of that, I can't really see a good platform for them anymore.

[AbusePuppy]

Yeah, Scout Sentinels are one of the few places I think they would be workable- not only are they guaranteed to get to use them when they appear from reserve, they can move and still fire all their guns and they stand a good chance of coming in from the enemy's side or rear armor, which improves their usefulness.

[Guest]

Hmmm.... thanks for the re-visit. Some things to think about.

-Pax

[AscentStudios]

I use HKs in my IG the same way I use Havoc MLs in my Chaos: to upgun my transports. Transports are so often anti-infantry that most players don't factor them as a potential threat to armor. Giving a Chimera the ability to take an attack of opportunity at exposed rear armor, or finish off another damaged transport/light armor, has proven handy to me, generally more so than a pintel heavy stubber. FWIW, both the US (Bradley) and Soviet (BMP series) militaries did exactly the same thing. 

[spacewolved]

HK's are not really worth it. One is not enough and if you take multiples you could probably spent those points elsewhere with better use.

[Mr.MoreTanks]

I just have a hard time justifying a one use 15pts. weapon. Especially with IG where it will it 50% of the time. They just cost too much for me.

 

Think about it, you have 2 rhinos, a pred, and a razorback. Putting a HK on all of them is 60pts. You could be getting an Inquistor with divination and a servo skull for less than that.

[WestRider]

They're actually a better value for IG. 80 Points worth of IG HKs average 4 Hits, while it takes 90 Points worth of SM HKs to get the same.

 

Still overpriced in both cases, tho, especially in 6th.

[Aldroud]

I like to run them on las cannon equipped Sentinels.  Taking the scout move to get a good firing position, my first action is always volley missiles at a vehicle.  Follow up with las cannon shots.  Usually good for glancing a land raider or knocking off a rhino