HeroZero Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 This year I am bringing Vampire Counts. I have finalized my list to begin putting paint on models. I am going to start with list Master Necromancer Level 4 Lore of Vampires Master of the Dead Dispel Scroll Pidgeon Plucker Amulet 250 Vampire Level 2 Lore of Vampires Barded Nightmare Heavy Armor Shield Lance Talisman of Preservation Potion of Foolhardiness Quick Blood 200 Vampire Level 2 Lore of Vampires Fencers Blades Iron Curse Icon Quick Blood 210 Necromancer Level 2 Lore of Vampires Staff of Damnation 140 44 Skeletons Full Command 250 20 Zombies Musician, Standard Bearer 70 22 Crypt Ghouls Champion 220 5 Dire Wolves 40 5 Dire Wolves 40 5 Dire Wolves 40 5 Dire Wolves 40 5 Hexwraiths 150 5 Hexwraith 150 6 Crypt Horrors 228 2 Fell Bats 32 Corpse Cart 90 Varghulf 175 5 Blood Knights Musician, Standard Bearer Banner of Eternal Flame 280 Black Coach 195. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted January 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Post 2. I feel that this list is a solid 3.3-3.5 (based on the scale) what is everyone else's opinion? I'd really appreciate input from anyone and everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 what is that you are wanting to accomplish win this list? knowing that would help guide my input. from a first glance this list appears under powered. there is very little that has any real kind of punch. most of the list looks like chaff. I don't see you having any unit that can deal with blocks of any size. the ghouls are much to small I be of any use. you will need at least 30-35 to make them efficient in combat, even with a ton of ion possibilities. I commend you or taking models that aren't optimal (blood knights and the black coach). do you have a theme your building around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 if drop the ghouls all together and take more blocks of skellies to go with master of the dead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted January 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 what is that you are wanting to accomplish win this list? knowing that would help guide my input. from a first glance this list appears under powered. there is very little that has any real kind of punch. most of the list looks like chaff. I don't see you having any unit that can deal with blocks of any size. the ghouls are much to small I be of any use. you will need at least 30-35 to make them efficient in combat, even with a ton of ion possibilities. I commend you or taking models that aren't optimal (blood knights and the black coach). do you have a theme your building around? It's a list that's purposely.built to be lower mid range in power level. I wasn't looking for smashing (been there, not fun) The general theme is a ruined castle and its inhabitants. The idea of the units are to mutually support each other rather than going in a Hulk smash type of method. The skeletons, coach and horrors all will be there to tarpit units, the zombies bunker my mages in the back,.knights are monster hunting, varghiest id there to provide extra resolution as needed. Hexwraiths are there to blow up chaff. Dogs are to redirect. I don't feel that all VC armies have to be drown opponents in bodies, or super death stars. I would like try it this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 I think the list will struggle in any sustained combat situation. it appears to rely on ion and without some magic support (black pariapt) all your wizard levels may be for naught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted January 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 I Will say that I definitely has an over reliance on IoN. Remember this is for the OFCC not a hard core tournament. If you feel its so bad though I may redo some spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 I think you have enough flank support (varghulf, knights, coach, and bats). Here's what I would do: Drop a unit or two of dogs to get that ghoul unit up to a little more power. Even with IoN, that unit is going to crumble to fast. If you're not wanting smash mouth numbers, maybe just a unit size of 30. Or, go 25 and add some more bodies to the zombie unit (nothing wrong with more zombies for the list you have). I'd also suggest to try to get another bat in that unit (if you are able to). I love the theme, maybe drop the level 2 necromancer to get some points to beef up some units. Also, since you are going for smaller unit sizes, have you thought about the vampire ability to heal up bats and wolves? That would fit what you are trying to do very well. I think, IMO, you only need minor tweaks to a few units (just for a little more size). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted January 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Yeah, 4 units of dogs is unwieldy. I think I may add 8 more to the ghouls with those points... The zombies with luck will never see combat. I'm tempted to drop the.necromancer and coach for a strigoi ghoul king, but that is counter to my plan. Wish there was a hero level strigoi. Although one heavy hitting infantry unit wouldn't kill me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 while trying to stay within your expressed theme here is what I would do. drop the ghouls for a block of skellies, this fits well with the idea of ruins and gives you more from master of the dead. make the dog units 6 for optimal dart formation while keeping some drops. try to get the either free up the points to get your hexies to 6 per units (dart formation) and it get the horrrors to a body count of 8. none of these tweeks make any of the units broken/overpowered. while keeping the flavor of variaty that you've got going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Yeah, 4 units of dogs is unwieldy. I think I may add 8 more to the ghouls with those points... The zombies with luck will never see combat. I'm tempted to drop the.necromancer and coach for a strigoi ghoul king, but that is counter to my plan. Wish there was a hero level strigoi. Although one heavy hitting infantry unit wouldn't kill me. I was suggesting a little more zombies because if they are the bunker for your casters then they may see more template shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted January 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 I have q theory on zombies ... One IoN a round will see them swell quote tast why pay for more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 I have q theory on zombies ... One IoN a round will see them swell quote tast why pay for more. Fair enough. The rare situation, I only see two, would be the double trebs from Bretonnia and the double stone throwers from Dwarfs on first turn blasting the unit beyond look out sir rolls. However, I totally see your point and fully understand, as an ex vamp player, the IoN being more than sufficient to keep the unit going all game. I like the list, it's deceiving. If you know vampires, you know this list could actually work with successful results. If you don't know vampire counts, you may underestimate the list until the first 2 IoN's go off. I don't know how I missed this. I would suggest taking the flaming banner off the blood knights. With all the loan characters out there with access to a dragon helm, a single character could hold that unit in place all game. I know it's mainly for all the regen stuff out there, and yes there is a lot of it, but I see this as a problem more than a benefit. The hexwraiths should be your go to units for locking a regening monster/unit in place. Being ethereal, you really only need to be worried about getting a wound or 2 through to win combat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted January 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Mexicanninja thanks, I appreciate it. The Flame Banner is so the unit can hunt its primary targets: Monsters. Very few or those got gems and helme but you are right its likely a liability. Not a hard swap for banner of swiftness or something else. So I am dropping the plain necromancer, and black coach for the strigoi.lord. I think I need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 keep us updated on your lists performance when you get the chance for a couple games. I'm interested to see how a mixed bag list can perform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted January 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 I proxied it with my TK.It did adequate against Ogres. The game was fine, but I took it in the pants thanks to low winds every turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Okay, got a game in against my own WoC. I got rolled. Just rolled. Back to revising... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 what elements contributed to the "getting rolled"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 what elements contributed to the "getting rolled"? I'm assuming, due to no combat staying power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted January 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Actually no. That almost had no impact. I got rolled because I couldn't hit and/or break armor 1+. Nurgle Khorne sucked my sack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 I'm surprised that was the case with auto-hit hexies that allow no armor save.... with that many mages did you find you lacked the power dice to be effective with your spells? what are your thoughts regarding the black periapt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted January 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 I had almost no issue with magic with entirely average dice. The Hexwraiths got obliterated in a quick second. Ensorcerelled weapons, and a magic missile killed them prior to impacting the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted January 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 So I revised the list to be harder after a conversation with some people. The idea is if you go too soft, you may end up not providing a good match in challenge level. No one wants to roll opponents, its not fun. So do we feel the following is too hard? Strigoi Ghoul King Red Fury, Quickblood Ogres Blade, The Other Trickster's Shard, Dragon Bane Gem Master Necromancer, LVL 4 Dispel Scroll Necromancer, LVL 1 Corpse Cart Book of Arkhan Wight King Great Weapon, Night Shroud, Seed of Rebirth Battle Standard Bearer 39 Crypt Ghouls, Champion 49 Skeleton Warriors, Full Command 20 Zombies, Standard, Musician 5 Dire Wolves 5 Dire Wolves 5 Hex Wraith 5 Hex Wraith Mortis Engine, Blasphemous Tome Varghulf Too over the top? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Actually no. That almost had no impact. I got rolled because I couldn't hit and/or break armor 1+. Nurgle Khorne sucked my sack. Oh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 That list is far from over the top. While it poses a threat to opponents you have none of the following units: Black Knights Mounted Vampire spam Ethereal Character spam Crypt Horrors Terrorgheists The list you have is perfect for representing a competitive list at a non tournament envirornment. You have included units which would not be used in non-comp score tournaments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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