Mid-41st Millenium Crisis (and Some Culture)

[Aventine]

How many of us here build an army totally based on models we want on the table so they look cool, rather than their effectiveness?  I'm finding that it's totally fun to do this with orks. 

 

I have Sicaran Battle Tanks in my Irons hands for cause they are efing cool lookin, not for effectiveness.

 

I prefer a complete fusion and balance of the two. Example: I have an idea for a model/unit ( I want AdMech Thallax with my Heresy Marines), then think of rules that could apply that would also be effective (Hmmm, Broadsides are good), then modify the models to make them better fit the rules (missle fists on you, Thallax!).

The thing is, from a visual and coolness factor, there are conversions; you can make a model look any way you want. There is no equivalent to this for rules.

[Guest]

See, here's the thing. I've played most of my Games over the past couple of years against the same guy. That was a big chunk at the end of 5th, and most of my play in 6th. During 5th, we usually had very close games, regardless of what we brought, fooled around with goofy lists, whatever. We approach the game in much the same way.

 

Even before the new Dexes started dropping, that went away in 6th. Something like 3/4 of our games are blowouts, with semi-regular tabling, and it's far worse when we try to play casually or at a lower power level. Armies just seem to disintegrate when we do that, but when we go all out, it seems to balance reasonably well.

 

I'm playing with as tight a gaming group as you can get. We're both in agreement about what we want from the Game, and we don't seem to be able to get it without actually re-writing the Rules.

If you play all your games with the same person, why use GW rules at all? Seems like you could houserule an entire game if you wanted. I would be interested in a battle report or two, as it could be something obvious that is making it no fun.

 

 

I'm feeling pretty disenchanted with 40k right now too. I think a huge part of it is the variables as people mentioned above. It simply isn't possible to fit in enough answers to all of the threats out there, which means something out there is going to stomp you flat, and there's often little you can do about it. And this is a dangerous problem to have for 3 reasons:

 

1. Competitive gamers can't build TAC lists. It can be frustrating to be knocked out because you faced the wrong list. Match-up luck can be just as important as in-game luck.

2. Non-competitive gamers have a hard time having those close games that are so fun. They do happen in 6th, and they're a blast, but they just aren't that common. It's hard to keep a smile on your face when you're being forced to eat gravel.

3. Now, more than ever, competitive and non-competitive gamers have a hard time mixing. If you're competitive and playing with non-competitive folk, nobody has fun and you look like an ass. If you're non-competitive and figure you'll try out a tourney, you're reminded really quickly why you shouldn't play at that level.

 

So yeah, playing with ONLY like-minded individuals is the best answer, and to an extent, always has been. But that's still a [big bad swear word]ty answer, because it doesn't encourage anyone to meet anyone new. Play with only who you know, and plays like you.

1. This is ideal. I hate the rock-paper-scissors of 5th. You can build balanced lists. It does happen. You just can't design the list to win every game, design it to survive every game and you end up with more enjoyable games.

2. Come to the GG league, we have lots of them. Would be interested in a game with you sometime, assuming we kept RoC topics away from the in-person, as you and I tend to disagree there.

3. This was an issue in 5th too, possibly more so, with KP being 1/3 missions and total wipes being encouraged at most events. Lots of 'ard boyz players with no desire to paint or add fluff to the game, just a burning desire to win.

-Pax

[TW_Haines]

   40k is still strong in Bellingham there are a few people that are backing out and taking brakes but then us new guys step in. Im a competitive person but I also understand I cant win um all........or well most........ok so I only won 1 game so far. But I picked next eds army, assault will be back I can feel it. Yes Games workshop wants money and the codex are out of balance. Bugs look to have taken a beating, and Eldar are strong its a game there will be some soft elements in every game. But outside of ternys make the shop rules match what you want.

  Maybe Bugs use 5th ed rules with units from the new codex? that may help with all the wierd bugs behaving badly when not in range of brain bugs. we use alot of line of sight braking terrain local and that help keep the games closer so far.

just my 2 cents

Timothy

[WestRider]

@Pax: I said most, not all. We both occasionally attend Tournaments or otherwise play other opponents. And we'd like to be playing the same game regardless, so we don't screw up all the time when we're playing other people because we're used to our huge mass of House Rules.

[Munkie]

I don't think playing with like-minded individuals equals only playing those you know. It just means you have to communicate with your opponent before the game starts, or even during the game ("I know you can just keep moving back and shooting at me, but I am not really feeling very  engaged in this game right now because of it.") I know wargamers, as a group, are not great about expressing themselves in person; so that is a hurdle, but one that can be overtaken.

 

No, they aren't the same, but it's hard to know who (or what area) is like-minded if you don't know them already. Your opponent might ask for soft, but not realize that your soft is still pretty damn mean. That's always happened but now there is a bigger disparity than ever between the average list and the truly powerful one.

 

Likewise, asking your opponent to make a less optimal move because you're interest is waning is kind of a delicate conversation to have with a stranger--even for people more socially adept than we. That aside, I think it's frustrating that this MUST be a part of the pre-game conversation. GW has let the rules get so out of hand that people have to figure out exactly how many punches they're gonna pull or risk someone leaving the game wondering why they bother to play. That indicates to me that they need to reign it in a bit.

[Stoobert]

The phrase that jumped out at me most after reading this entire thread...

 

"...playing with like minded individuals..."

 

I think this is key for enjoyment of the game. I also think you must be type of person enjoys building and painting to enjoy 40k in the long run, regardless of the types of games you like to play.