intrizic Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 I would like peoples opinion on the direction that 40k is taking. I'm talking less about the current meta and 2+ rerolls and more about escalation, stronghold assault and Imperial Knights and the big D. no rage, just an introspective tone really: I'm not so sure I want to follow GW down that path, I'm not so sure I like where it's going, but I often get tunnel vision and I would like your opinions guys, what am I missing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Well I wasn't too stoked about flyers but those actually worked out pretty decent so i'm dubiously optimistic. The game is going more garage in my opinion which makes big events tough but I love it for the most part. I see the community fracturing into smaller groups for play but the game itself is wonderfully fun I'm actually very energized on 40k more so than malifaux... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 I see GW as putting their money where their mouth is in regards to NOT being focused on competitive rule-sets. Generally, I like that they are providing more options, provided you're playing with folks who want to try more narrative games, scenarios and the like. Cool scenarios with awesome stories are a big part of what make lots of games like infinity so much fun. For example, our Apoc game was an absolute blast. I don't see Escalation, Stronghold Assault, Imperial Knights, d-weapons, or most of the data-slates having any place in competitive 40k play. They simply aren't balanced for it. In organized events you need to be ready to play against anyone - part of the fun in tournaments is playing strangers. The supplements destroy the balance necessary for an enjoyable experience in this setting, and thus have no place. However, it all has its place for funsies and the like. Corey wants to take his Titan army? Cool - that'd be a blast to play against! Provided I knew it was coming and we had a cool kill-the titan scenario or an epic King of War - on - King of War battle. We're playing a "standard 40k" tournament and someone plops down d-weapons? Uhhh... no thanks. More than anything, I think these crazy releases are good. they provide more ways to play the game, and more ways to immerse ourselves in the universe we love. However, they also highlight the fact that gaming requires a social contract - with so many options, you need to come to an explicit agreement about the parameters of the game, so that both players can enjoy the game. Hmmm... makes me want to come up with a short little code you can use to indicate the type of game you're after, kinda like singles ads. Forge-World friendly vanilla 40k player seeks 2000 point random BRB game against like-minded individual. Or, open-minded player seeks intense KoW on KoW action; strength-d is fine by me; expect the same! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted February 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 I don't see Escalation, Stronghold Assault, Imperial Knights, d-weapons, or most of the data-slates having any place in competitive 40k play. They simply aren't balanced for it. In organized events you need to be ready to play against anyone - part of the fun in tournaments is Hmmm... makes me want to come up with a short little code you can use to indicate the type of game you're after, kinda like singles ads. Forge-World friendly vanilla 40k player seeks 2000 point random BRB game against like-minded individual. Or, open-minded player seeks intense KoW on KoW action; strength-d is fine by me; expect the same! legit Laugh out loud moment on this :D intense KoW on KoW action, expect the D, the heavy D..... Great points guys, I may be time to forge that hard narrative we've all been hoping for ;) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne_Cobbb Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Agree with Jim. They can be fun, but in a tournament, not so much. It is great that there are rules for them and the expansions are cool. But I have never played spearhead, city fight, planetary assault, etc. And if i did, i would take a list accordingly. I think they should stay separate, and when people want to play them, they do. Just not a surprise escalation. yeahData Slates and formations seem a bit dumb, but they are more like forge world rules, so I think will be accepted over time. That being said, I would support limiting them in out events. Maybe not banning them out right, but saying only one ally or formation can be used at a time. It would really be frustrating to be fighting SM with an inquisitor, a tau formation, and eldar allies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashthedean Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 The way I see all of the new rules pretty simply boils down to "If you don't like it, don't play it" Personally, I prefer standard games of 40k with no real crazy dataslates or superheavies or whatever thrown into the mix and I feel like that is what most people I run into also like so that's what we play and there's no problem. It seems like people are afraid that these things will find their way into tournaments, but I really don't see that happening so I'm not really too concerned. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Yeah for the monthly events I've pretty much decided no more than two codexes keeping in mind that the expansion codexes count (for example sentinels of terra with Ultra marines counts as two). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 The only expansion that looks pretty fun and fairly balanced in normal play is the stronghold assult rules as that is really just an expansion on the already existing fortification slot in FoC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne_Cobbb Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 The only expansion that looks pretty fun and fairly balanced in normal play is the stronghold assult rules as that is really just an expansion on the already existing fortification slot in FoC As long as D (derp) weapons stay away... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Stronghold assault also expands things to some AV 15 buildings, right? Considering how much some folks struggle against AV14, that's still something an opponent would want to be warned about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munkie Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Buildings?! Bah! I'm here to play Warhammer, not Polly Pocket! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashthedean Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 I'm looking for a game of Polly Pocket actually. Anyone down for next Tuesday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munkie Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 I'm down. Can I bring my Mighty Max dataslate? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fix Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 You ought to come over to the Infinity table and play Hot Wheels with Nathan and I, Kevin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergentzimm Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 I love what you said Jim. I just wish they could go down this road and still have a tight rules set. Look at magic. It has a great set of rules and constant changes in available cards. This creates a giant open world of possibilities. When you come down to play magic you have a type, standard, constructed, draft, Modern, ect. For me, I enjoy magic in draft and in the computer games. Just really don't want to play the pay to win game. Prefer the strategy of the game not the wallet. I think you were right in that the social group is going to have figure out a way to explain the type of game they want to play. The only real issue here is that this limits the games potential and makes it really hard for new players. New game formats usually mean more money, which is a barrier to entry. I would prefer if there was a more standard rules set that was easier to branch off with. The problem is that they can't seem to write two codex's the same way or the same power level, so each codex feels like an expansion, with new rules and power levels. So to answer the question at hand, I am not stoked about the direction, but I am happy I live in the Northwest where the gaming groups have the right idea to make it work. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Amen to that. I'm really glad I got into the hobby ages ago, and really glad we have an established gaming group that knows what fun gameplay is about. The barriers GW are creating for new players are enormous, what with the rules spread out over a gazillion books and ebooks and esupplements and the like. If I were new, I'd have no clue where to start (without someone to show me the ropes). I reckon, as grizzled grog ads, that's part of our job - to show new folks the ropes in a way that doesn't crush their souls or turn them into pay-to-win monsters. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergentzimm Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Funny thing is, GW was spending all their efforts wooing the newbies when I was there. I am starting to think all these new rules and such are their way to try and cater to the existing base. It will be interesting to see if it pays off or if they end up burning their candle at both ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munkie Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 I actually look at 40k and the direction they're taking the rules, and it seems more targeted towards kids rather than adults. I know when I got into warhammer I wanted to play the biggest battles possible so I could use ALL my new stuff. I didn't know or care that much about the fluff, I just knew what models I liked and knew I wanted to use them. And now more than ever, people can take all the models they've got and play them all together. What is fluffy, or themed, or whatever is no longer reflected in the rules. It is entirely our responsibility to govern ourselves and decide how important theme is. That's not a terrible thing, but it is a subjective, changing, difficult to explain thing. And what might work for us in Bellingham, likely won't be the same when we go on the road. That's my main concern really. I know I can reliably get a game in with anyone in Bellingham and we'll probably have a pretty fun time of it. Usually it is understood what you're facing when you get into it. I can build, and paint, and playtest an army to my satisfaction, only to find out that it is a crispy, dry leaf to other lists when we travel. Do I build to separate armies? Do I expect to lose when I travel? The divergence between what is good and what is fun has become a pretty discouraging gap for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergentzimm Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Yeah I think going on the road is the thing that gets lost here. For me, I am anti-social at heart and have a hard time setting up games. I play in tournaments a lot because I can guarantee I will come down and play 3 games in a day. It's really hard to figure out what type of games I am going to get if I want to drive north or south for an event. An event like OFCC is pretty easy for me, as it has history on it's side. Just some random thoughts on dayquil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 These things are why I took to advertising our monthly events as garage hammer in a store. I think the raffle idea is gonna work to help promote the way we wanna play around these parts. Come out and participate play games it is the only way to get better so you can sand bag those who abuse things,just try to avoid giving them full points and know that you took their one thing away from them. Relish in their pain like a dark eldar... Kay this took a turn to the ranty side of things but was fun! :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raak Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 The divergence between what is good and what is fun has become a pretty discouraging gap for me. Well said, sir. Now how do/can we bridge that gap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 The rule of cool sir, rule of cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggies01 Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 This a nice whine session and all, but anyone have any idea how to fix this? The best I have done is emailed gw but of course no response. Maybe I will write my congressman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted February 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 whine....sure :D Bottom line is we have only so much power to effect, I won't use the term fix and I feel it's too subjective, this. Within the local meta, it probably wouldn't be too difficult to get some reasonable house rules going, I hear removing battle brothers from 90% of armies will fix this ( not looking at you chaos ). But that will only fix things locally. What scale were you referring to Mr. Huggies01? If you are talking overall GW scale, vote with your dollars, this is why I try to buy all my models from 3rd party companies these days ( definitely looking at your puppetswar (who think they are GW with their [big bad swear word]ing pricing sometimes and Dreamforge ). The purpose of this thread was to gauge peoples reactions and feelings towards these sweeping changes. I agree with Jim, GW put their money where their mouth is concerning rules, which take me to an off topic question, what are we willing to do about it? What do you want out of your table top gaming? Moar Apoc? Because IMO Apoc is the epitome of casual play, where finishing the game isn't the point, playing the game is the point. Do we take our 40k that way as well? How is the community at large dealing with these changes? I hate to break it to you Duncan, but the inclusion of Imperial Knights with their codex is heralding in the age of the D weapon, if I understand that correctly. From what I understand, and I could be wrong, Imperial Knights come with D weapons, in a standard codex......this is what GW is doing to 40k, not the game started playing 10 years ago, [big bad swear word] it isn't even the same game I was playing at the beginning of 6th edition. I hate to sound old, but too much, too fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted February 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 OH and if you think you can hide in Warhammer Fantasy Battle you're lying to yourself....these changes will come to that system as well 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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