40k Tourney Ideas

[huggies01]

So I have been thinking and now I request some help here. I want to run a 40k tournament event that is based more around the fluff then strictly the gaming. I have been throwing so ideas around and here is what I have come up with so far;

 

1.) First and foremost - No Supplements, Dataslates, Lords of War, Forge-World, Escalation Apoc Models and No Allies (unless they can be justified to be together. I.e.) Chaos and Demons etc.

 

2.) Secondly and I like this idea a lot - No two same units in a list. Every Force Org slot must have at least one unit. I would also like to find a way to judge each codex finding the worst most pointless units in the codex and require that at least one of these units must be in your list. Only one of these units then during the battle would benefit from a point system that works in this manner; if the unit dies you automatically gain x victory points. But that can be altered per argument that I am sure is going to happen on this post. Example of units would be units like Necron Lychguard, Eldar Howling Banshees, Tau vespid Stingwings, etc.

 

3.) I also have been toying with this a lot and this is one of my favorite ideas. Make a point system that specifically follows this; First blood is not counted unless it is a unit that is destroyed in assault. This would rarely happen but it helps reward the much needed assault element and takes away the easy melta drop pod first blood. Vehicles would be worth 5 points and infantry units would be worth 10 points. Also Linebreaker would work in this fashion;

 

Any unit (since vehicles don't count) Gains linebreaker points based on their toughness and armor save. The scale would be you count toughness going up to a minimum of one point. And armor save going down to a minimum of one point. For example, a terminator unit that has line breaker is toughness 4. So it is numbers greater than but not equal to. So it would get two points. For 5 and 6. Armor save would get only 1 point due to their 2+. So for linebreaker that unit would score a total of 3 linebreaker points. Where as lets say a guardsmen being t3 with a 6+ save would get 8 points. This system rewards players who can keep their weak units alive in the enemy deployment zone. 

 

4.) I think in regards of prize reward, best player, funnest game and something else has to be divided equally. This would mean that somehow I think Epicness points have to be added in somehow. Don't know how yet, but somehow rewarding those events where Abaddon stands against an Avatar in a brutal fight to the death. 

 

This is what I have so far and I welcome any and all thoughts, or advice. Please.

                        

[Hobbitron]

1) Let people bring allies. I can understand where you're coming from, but honestly it'll be more trouble than it's worth to convince people to go along with it.

 

2) Some armies are very limited, especially in the most required slot (troops). I'd say no more than half of that particular slot of a single unit (1 HQ, 1 Elite, 3 Troop, 1 FA, 1HS), no more than 3 of any unit period. So if something can be taken in multiple slots (dreads, dedicated transports, etc...) you can't take more than 3. Gives slightly more flexibility. Keep in mind that a rule like this burns Nids too. Since redundancy is important. However, if everyone is following things like this it should be less important to build a potent Nid list.

 

3) I dig the First Blood change. The Linebreaker stuff seems convoluted. For a slightly easier solution, perhaps something like requiring more units in the opponents half of the table than your own half. That way you can't just race a unit of bikes up to get the point. You've got to move more of your army. Gives short range/assault armies more control over the point. Also limit it to the player that has half or more of their force, and the most units. So both people can't walk away with it.

 

4) Also great. Perhaps for those awesome stories, have the last hour or so consist of "storytime" where someone can nominate a moment in a battle, and then it's just a popular vote?

 

I'd also suggest offering people extra points based on the list they bring. Every single unit is unique? +1 point to your overall score. Your army is painted to a point that is above and beyond tournament minimum? +1 point. You made good use of allies from fluff? +1 point. You can't take allies but made some sort of effort to come and play anyway? +1 point....

[Hobbitron]

Make a list of the worst unit from each dex (maybe worst two). Give people 1 point for including a unit from the list.

[Jayne_Cobbb]

I like this Idea.

[sergentzimm]

I would say no duplicates outside of base troops units which can be up to 3 maybe. 

 

I say keep allies in but maybe just remove the battle brothers rule.

[generalripphook]

Or if it's fluffy treat all allies as battle brothers

[Munkie]

I would make all battle brosephs count as allies of convenience. Solves lots of problems.

[huggies01]

I would make all battle brosephs count as allies of convenience. Solves lots of problems.

Yet that isn't my main concern. The real issue is the access to other units that you normally don't get.

[VonVilkee]

I'll play! I could prolly bring out my orks...

[Munkie]

Yet that isn't my main concern. The real issue is the access to other units that you normally don't get.

 

Well obviously that's your main concern, you play nids. But some armies (like DE) are basically unplayable without allies. They just can't play 6th edition. But when you start putting blessings on allies, or creating ridiculous IC combos things get pretty ridiculous.

[intrizic]

DE win the ground war, but the air is their weakness imo Munkie

[Munkie]

Unless there aren't enough places to hide on the ground. Then they lose that war too.

[JMGraham]

So I have been thinking and now I request some help here. I want to run a 40k tournament event that is based more around the fluff then strictly the gaming. I have been throwing so ideas around and here is what I have come up with so far;

 

 

 

.....

 

This is what I have so far and I welcome any and all thoughts, or advice. Please.

 

I appreciate the motivation, but I have some thoughts.

 

1) Fair enough. I reckon that, save for your allies thing, this is actually how most tournaments of any size will work. Your no allies thing is different, but as long as folks know who can ally with whom from the outset, I don't forsee any problems (though it might limit your player base somewhat).

 

2) Hmmm... this seems a fairly poorly conceived idea. You need to flesh it out before I can judge. No duplicate unit type, or no duplicate units with identical equipment? Either way, it shuts out lots of fluffly, themed armies. Necrons aren't left with much choice. Mono-god daemons are screwed, etc. Re: the crappy models, the thing is, people don't have those models. What happens to the Tau player with no Vespids? Or the Eldar player with no Howling banshees? Can they still play at the tournament? If not, you've limited your player base. Telling someone they can't take something is one thing; telling them they have to take a certain unit is another kettle of fish.

 

3) *shrug* Might be fun for a special scenario or two, but I don't see this having a big impact on things. In my experience, First Blood rarely determines outcomes in real games. At least, I pretty much never get first blood and win fairly often. Still, alternative win conditions when combined with a good narrative, can make for some really fun scenarios.

 

4) De-incentivizing (is that a word?) winning by removing prizes for winning is a good idea. This is the tact I took with Walpurgis - make a really strong narrative, reinforced by interesting scenarios and awesome themed swag. Tell folks up front that all they get for winning games is a little tiny trophy (the same size as the best painted and the best sports). Then raffle the prizes off to folks, or  have a prize table where everyone gets something. I think it worked pretty well for Walpurgis; most folks had lots of fun irrespective of whether they won or lost.

 

US players lean more toward comp-anarchy these days, but there are plenty of good comp systems out there for Fantasy. Some of them are hard rules for restrictions on units, number of models, etc. that can be taken. Other one's assign point values to different combinations, and cap the tournament at a certain point level. The Australians are particularly good at this. I have yet to see a decent 40k comp system, but I think it could be done. Generally, good comp systems require ongoing maintenance from a larger community, to tweak things as different combos pop up, new books are released, etc.

[huggies01]

So let the records show that I could give zero [big bad swear word]s about nids winning or benefiting from this play style. So what I gather so far is that apparently everyone will vomit if allies get taken away. What did everyone do in 5th ed.? How did everyone survive. The idea is to take away spamming of units. That is where 40k really rewards its players. Yes certain armies may have a difficult time playing as a stand alone army but I have been playing nids so cry to someone elses mommy. However this would be remedied by the fact that a player can still win so long as they have one model left on the table. The scoring system would work on the mission and by round offer a variable of points thus allowing someone in last place of the third round to still have a decent chance to win the tourney. 1st round is standard points, 2nd round is doubled, 3rd round the points are tripled (whoever wins gets to play fast money, ha). Each mission objectives would not be from the book. There would be objectives, like a defensive mission where one of the players has to defend an area, kidnapping an opponents unit and etc. etc.

 

To clarify yes there would be more than one of the same troop units allowed maybe 3. That is the least of my worries though. As in many of missions you wouldn't need troops to score. Yes it does suck not being able to spam a majority of your good units but keep in mind your opponent can't either. One army will always suffer and one army will always benefit and so is the nature of 40k. But that won't stand for anything if the objectives still allow you to win. This will also play more to the tactics of players rather than good list, as a good list won't stand for much. The goal was to level the playing field for all players. Mostly I think from this marine armies will benefit the most. 

 

For epicness, the rule would be if you challenge your unique character with someone elses then both you and your opponent would get 5 points. This would endorse that epic battles and yes means that you and your opponent could find ways to boost each other higher in the standings. Maybe non-uniques can challenge for 2 points. Someone let me know if any army HQ's don't have a unique character, will ya?

 

Remember it is set up around the mission NOT the army. The goal is to make players do things they wouldn't normally do. 

[VonVilkee]

Hey! Not everyone I said I'll play and didn't give any reservations :P

[generalripphook]

If we wanted to run a line of fluffy events we could probably do something along the line of a warhamster grand campaign...

[Munkie]

Shae, in 5th ed I could assault out of webway portals and enjoy a cover save now and again. I could also shoot at every target with my full ballistic skill, so the fact that almost none of DE shooting is twin-linked wasn't really a problem. Much has changed.

[huggies01]

Cool cool so I gather these idea are not quite viable then. Instead of attempting to change the already corrupt system, let's just leave it the way it is then. Too much of a change I guess. 

[intrizic]

Unless there aren't enough places to hide on the ground. Then they lose that war too.

 

well...you do ... ;)

[Munkie]

I forget, how did your venom spam do against my crisis suit squad the last time we played?

[VonVilkee]

Cool cool so I gather these idea are not quite viable then. Instead of attempting to change the already corrupt system, let's just leave it the way it is then. Too much of a change I guess.

 

Bigger problem is you are preaching to the choir here in hamsterVille. You want to grow our community immediately into a huge event, very difficult.

[huggies01]

I have done some pretty crazy things in my life, changing gamers outlook on games would be among some of the easier stuff I have done. He'll, gw does that every new codex. 

[sergentzimm]

I have done some pretty crazy things in my life, changing gamers outlook on games would be among some of the easier stuff I have done. He'll, gw does that every new codex. 

 

Yeah they worship the lord of change at GW that is for sure. One of the managers at GW told me this during my training. Hold on and just enjoy the ride. 

[intrizic]

Bigger problem is you are preaching to the choir here in hamsterVille. You want to grow our community immediately into a huge event, very difficult.

What I have observed from all my travels for tournaments is that you grow your community by joining the community.  We have friends in the hobby outside our area because we go to events and tournaments.  Just look at Da Mommaz Boys, we know them from OFCC and Da Mommaz Boyz tournaments.  Dexter Wallace, the guy that won Da Mommaz Boyz tournament was a friend of mine from a tournament that Corey, Joey, Kevin and I went to at Mugu's, where I beat the early 6th Edition Deamons power list, screamer spam, flamer spam, at the hands of Markdawg no less, after getting tabled by Joeys crusher spam list, that is community right there.

 

At the LVO I played next to Chuck, that I met at a monthly tournament when I was testing out my DelTau list, he had the list I was the most concerned about.  Chuck had 3 friend with him at the LVO, all from the North Seattle area.  We have connections out in the community.  You just can't see it from Bellingham ;)