sergentzimm Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 So I pulled out my guard boxes and realized I have a lot of guard, even after scavenging a few vehicles for the orks already. So any prevailing thoughts on where the new book will head? I have access to roughly 4 Leman Russ, 4 chimeras( with option to go hellhound on one and two earth shaker guns), 1 vendetta, 1 squad of stormtroopers ( the armageddon era metals), then about 30 troop bodies plus another 25 I can turn into either heavy weapons or regular guardsman. My initial thought is to go mechanized as I am light on standard guard bodies. I may also ally in some space marines of some kind to shore up the objectives and troops slots. So just starting to think about guard and trying to figure out what road to start on. I have a lot of assembling I can do before the book drops, but some of it might depend on which way the book tends to lean. I am hoping to not have to pick much up besides the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TW_Haines Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Cant say where the book will head, but with the knights out I think big ol tanks may be a good idea. Big damage guns may be the way to go get in some damage before it stomps your troops. Also I think the vendetta will always be good, cant wait to see what the new book brings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergentzimm Posted March 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Yeah I will want to add in a knight eventually. If the games allow I do have a baneblade lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosGerbil Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 I think Russes will see a new Renaissance soon. 2 squads of 2 is excellent for Heavy Support. Round it out with artillery like griffons and a colossus, 2-3 hydras, or for a single vehicle go for a Manticore. My "man of the match," if it survives a couple turns, is usually my bastion breacher shells Medusa. I have one shotted land raiders turn 1. With high AV fortifications and superheavies becoming more common, these guys are important. We might be getting a kit for the Medusa / Colossus / etc. in a few months. Modeling musings: With your current models and for the current codex consider cutting down the earthshakers and putting them on the backs of chimeras to make 2 Griffons. 150 pts. of Str 6 infantry and light vehicle smashing is useful, that indirect fire can unseat hiding troops. Make some mortar guys (Easy conversion, you need tubes basically) and they will add up to let you barrage snipe. Since 4 Chimeras is way more effective than 2, maybe wait for the new kit.Better yet, make the mortars and crew platform removable so you can tinker with your list. Likewise with the hellhound junk, magnetise so you can swap. The earthshakers could also be turned into fixed guns with the FW entry to stretch out your bits. Hopefully they will put some actual Artillery in the next book. Melta / plasma vets in chimeras are still powerful, but you need 2-4 squads to get the job done. 1 of those squads can be a CCS. I love mixing in a platoon. For the PCS I tend to run them as 4 flamers in a chimera, or as an cheap wannabe weapon team with one mortar. I like weapon teams. You need them in numbers though as they are big targets and fragile. 2 autocannon teams, 1-2 lascannon teams and 1-2 mortar teams is what I gravitate towards if I can find the room. Heavy weapon teams are incredibly fun to model. If you are allowed to cheat with Forgeworld, Saber platforms are better than teams in almost every way for 6th edition. You do get less shots but so much more utility (with Interceptor), AA, and insane durability relative to the teams that it's worth it. A str 6 hit kills one team on a 2+, or does one wound on a 5+ to a saber platform that has a 3+ save built in, and counting the crewman two ablative wounds rather than one. 1 Vendetta is the minimum for a guard army IMO. If you were to make one purchase just for pure game effectiveness that should be it. However they could see a point jump in the next book so hold off for now since it's a big purchase. 55 guys is just enough bodies, light for guard but with Russes taking up the better portion of 800 points you can't have everything. Psyker battle squads are awesome but a fragile target like the HW teams. It depends on how much you want to convert to get the models, although I want to give a shout out to the Empire Flagellants kit as a vital resource to make them, and they are affordable. Marbo seems to be fun, useful for his points, and helps with low model count issues. Al Rahem is a blast and good for objective grabs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergentzimm Posted March 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 I like the ideas with the earthshaker platforms and the griffons. I really love long ranged artillery and russ's. Im hoping to get a really heavy tank build for sure. I will definitely wait to see what they do to the vendettas, as they might swing to the realm of 1 is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Vendettas are damn good looking models. I'm using two and to great effect. Guardsman can be dying like flies but the Vendettas pour the death on, round after round. Its the valkyrie that they need to beef up. That isn't even really a choice worth mentioning currently and I anticipate a change there. With a greater focus on Bullgryns and Ogryns as melee answers I wonder if they will allow them to go in a Vendetta? I have 27 storm troopers who are sorely wanting to gdt off my shelf. Kasrkin models are awesome. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergentzimm Posted March 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Vendettas are damn good looking models. I'm using two and to great effect. Guardsman can be dying like flies but the Vendettas pour the death on, round after round. Its the valkyrie that they need to beef up. That isn't even really a choice worth mentioning currently and I anticipate a change there. With a greater focus on Bullgryns and Ogryns as melee answers I wonder if they will allow them to go in a Vendetta? I have 27 storm troopers who are sorely wanting to gdt off my shelf. Kasrkin models are awesome. Indeed. I would expect a price hike on the vendetta. I have loved all the ranges of stormtrooper models for years but just haven't fit them in. I am planning to run the models as grenadiers unless they change for the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Grenadiers make total sense actually, for those models. I'll be honest. Ive mostly been holding my breath more than feeling giddy anticipation, ever since the 5E Blood Angels codex came out, worried. I really haven't been very justified in my reticense, as all the codex's so far have allowed me a very competitive army. There isn't an army on my shelf that I don't feel I can win with. BUT... This Imperial Guard codex, has me actually kinda giddy. I am actually looking FORWARD to what I've seen so far of it (which isn't much). I just get a "feeling" that it may be a codex that is internally balanced more than before, with less "obvious" choices and more competitive build possibilities. Perhaps more ability to do armies that are fun and still win, like with Tau and Orks where you can kinda play a BUNCH of combos and do well. See with Blood Angels, and to a lesser extent Grey KNights (and I like Grey KNights so Im not bagging on them) the builds that made SENSE weren't as varied. And then the newer codex's started to come out and you saw an effort to make that different for the newer ones. Codex Supplements are letting you play the fluffy army you wanted to play while the main codex's are giving you pretty interesting options so you dont feel liketheres only ONE way to win with them (as was the case in say, the ancient Dark Eldar codex). Imperial Guard have always been flexible, always been a little more morphable because of their lower points dudes. But there are OVERWHELMING winners in some areas. To wit: Marbo. I mean come on. Who wouldn't take this guy? He's an auto include. And also: almost no other elites are worth taking. Vendetta vs every other fast attack choice: I mean lets get serious here. Its been a while since anyone (perhaps besides me and my Rough Riders) took MOST of those slots seriously outside the Vendetta. HQ's: there are several options in the HQ section that are simply useless, as well as unit upgrade characters that NEVER got played. dead weight entirely. It came down to either a command group, or a Commissar Lord and more often than not, The Commissar Lord and Yarrick lose that battle almost every time. Thats just two once sided to say its internally balanced. Heavy support: obviously the strength and pretty much everything there is good so they got that right. With the new codex, I just really am excited to see if they made every unit useful and made all of them as possible centerpieces to a strategy. Because strategy is cool. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergentzimm Posted March 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 amen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 With the new codex, I just really am excited to see if they made every unit useful and made all of them as possible centerpieces to a strategy. Are you new to 40k? ;) I don't think this has ever been true for any codex. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Is it possible we'll see the vendetta removed from the codex? There isn't present a non-FW kit for this one. Lately, most GW codex include only models with GW kits for them. Also very reasonable that the vendetta loses it's transport capacity, what with space being relocated to house the generators for the lascannons (which is the fluffy reason the Phobos LR has a smaller passenger capacity than the Redeemer or Crusader). Just as likely to get a small upgrade sprue and a significant price hike... For bets, I bet that the sentinels will get a performance boost, somehow. GW seems to favor the units that no-one fields with the newer codex release, so this doesn't seem too unlikely. I also wouldn't be surprised if the IG get the co-axial rules added in. I really hope they do something fun with camo netting, as I have some set aside for when GW makes me able to put it on every tank without feeling like an idiot... I do think it's likely that the Death strike will become a D weapon or have one of the apocalypse size blast markers. It will probably keep the firing rules, so it really won't be too unbalanced in that respect, but switching the variable blast radius to a fixed template would be much easier to write rules for. Probably the 15" one with multiple sections having different damage values that roll on a table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Are you new to 40k? ;) I don't think this has ever been true for any codex. Do I seem new? Tau is internally balanced well. So is Eldar. So is Orks. All of them really allow you to play the army you want and still be good at it. I am excited about the possibilities that the new codex will bring, especially in melee and please. PLEASE GAWD... make Rough Riders awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Is it possible we'll see the vendetta removed from the codex? There isn't present a non-FW kit for this one. Lately, most GW codex include only models with GW kits for them. Also very reasonable that the vendetta loses it's transport capacity, what with space being relocated to house the generators for the lascannons (which is the fluffy reason the Phobos LR has a smaller passenger capacity than the Redeemer or Crusader). Just as likely to get a small upgrade sprue and a significant price hike... For bets, I bet that the sentinels will get a performance boost, somehow. GW seems to favor the units that no-one fields with the newer codex release, so this doesn't seem too unlikely. I also wouldn't be surprised if the IG get the co-axial rules added in. I really hope they do something fun with camo netting, as I have some set aside for when GW makes me able to put it on every tank without feeling like an idiot... I do think it's likely that the Death strike will become a D weapon or have one of the apocalypse size blast markers. It will probably keep the firing rules, so it really won't be too unbalanced in that respect, but switching the variable blast radius to a fixed template would be much easier to write rules for. Probably the 15" one with multiple sections having different damage values that roll on a table. Id like them to make IG tanks have a simple frontal arc that is 180 degrees! How bout that for a rule. Side shots would be tough to get. Also. Three Hull Points. Seriously? THREE? I mean my dang Dark eldar are that tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Tau is internally balanced well. So is Eldar. So is Orks. All of them really allow you to play the army you want and still be good at it. I lol'd. Your original statement: With the new codex, I just really am excited to see if they made every unit useful and made all of them as possible centerpieces to a strategy. My counter: Railsides, Sniper Drones, Piranhas, Sunsharks (lol), Razorsharks, Drone Squadrons, Aun'va, etc. Howling Banshees. Shining Spears. Wraithblades. Most of the Phoenix Lords, etc. Flash gits. Weirdboys. Tankbustas. Looted Wagons, etc. Every unit is clearly not useful in the three examples you gave and although you could use them as centerpieces of your strategy, it would be a bad idea. edit: I would love to be proven wrong with one example of a codex in 40k that had every unit useful and all units possible centerpieces to a strategy. Although, I suppose Codex: Imperial Knights comes to mind. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Well that was surprising! You think that way about Railsides and piranhas...and DRONES? ESPECIALLY the Drones I cant even begin to agree with you on. The Piranhas are easily one of the best values you can get if you sit down and work it out. just plain Piranhas, no upgrades, are an awesome value. And Aun'Va for cying out loud? I can at least SEE an argument on the planes (though I did make a list with them and it did well). But those other examples I think are probably not things I'd agree with at all. The Phoenix Lords are quite awesome. Iv'e used them, they've been used on me and they are great. Asurman is awesome sauce and Karandras is too. I haven't used Baharoth yet but he's on my mind... Ill give you flash gits, but then, theres lots of choices so okay they missed on that one. Wierdboyz is a debatable one, but okay sure. They aren't reliable ENOUGH and I can agree no one seems to use them (well there is one on this forum who did but...). Looted Wagons seem fine to me (but then I embrace the idea of how to use that particular unit). I DO see looted wagons being used so i dont think that one qualifies for the list of throw outs. But in the grand scheme, missing on one unit, maybe two... TOTALLY human and forgiveable. The ork codex at large is enormously rich in ways to go that work though. I now hope that the same thing happens for IG. That there is just infinite variety of winning combos! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 MOST units being usable is a world of difference from ALL units being usable. Which is primarily my disagreement with your original statement. "The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect." ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Also, re 'usable units' vs 'good internal balance'. These are two different things entirely. Just because a unit is useful/usable, doesn't mean there is good internal balance in a codex. If one unit in that org slot far outshines all of the other ones (i.e. riptides, windrider jetbikes, lootas), then no matter how good the other choices are there is poor internal balance. Good internal balance would mean that all of the units are equally valid choices and you aren't losing efficacy by choosing other units from that same slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 MOST units being usable is a world of difference from ALL units being usable. Which is primarily my disagreement with your original statement. "The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect." ;) eh... Im not sure what point you're trying to make. But um... I really dont think that ALL should be taken as literally as you have CHOSEN to. The point was pretty clear. Context and all. But since it apparently needs to be said more clearly (for some): I am hopeful that NEARLY ALL the units will be useful and can be a center to a strategy, from Storm Troopers to Rough Riders, to Ogryns to Vendettas, to Leman Russ's to...hell...Even the lowly ratling snipers and their psyker buddies. Hey thats a thought. what if sanctioned Psykers were a "one per HQ" non FOC type unit so you could use them WITH snipers? hmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 eh... Im not sure what point you're trying to make. But um... I really dont think that ALL should be taken as literally as you have CHOSEN to. The point was pretty clear. Context and all. Pick your words more carefully then. When you use the words 'make every unit useful' people tend to think that those words were arranged to mean 'make every unit useful'. ;) Either way, internal balance has never been one of GW's strong suits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Is it possible we'll see the vendetta removed from the codex? There isn't present a non-FW kit for this one. Lately, most GW codex include only models with GW kits for them. Also very reasonable that the vendetta loses it's transport capacity, what with space being relocated to house the generators for the lascannons (which is the fluffy reason the Phobos LR has a smaller passenger capacity than the Redeemer or Crusader). I cannot see them removing Vendettas. Removing their transport capacity is not something I considered. Maybe to keep the points where they are, they could do that. That would bum me out though, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Pick your words more carefully then. When you use the words 'make every unit useful' people tend to think that those words were arranged to mean 'make every unit useful'. ;) ...or you could just not look to pick a fight. This is a dumb tangent we're on right now, it's petty. It's adding nothing to the discussion that I can see. So... let's drop it shall we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 ...or you could just not look to pick a fight. This is a dumb tangent we're on right now, it's petty. It's adding nothing to the discussion that I can see. So... let's drop it shall we? You mad, bro? Just because you don't like the direction a discussion is going doesn't mean you get to end it. I'm discussing the point you made. You asked for something that I considered to be unrealistic. I explained why I thought it was unrealistic. You countered, I countered. Etc, so on. This is how people discuss things on discussion boards. No need to get hurt about it. Would you rather I just respond to all posts with 'Yeah, that would be great, wouldn't it?' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Is it possible we'll see the vendetta removed from the codex? There isn't present a non-FW kit for this one. Lately, most GW codex include only models with GW kits for them. The FW-only Nid stuff, like Shrikes and Skyslashers, stayed in the Nid Dex. It was only the Models that neither GW nor FW were making that got dropped. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 I like Sky slashers. You mad, bro? Just because you don't like the direction a discussion is going doesn't mean you get to end it. I'm discussing the point you made. You asked for something that I considered to be unrealistic. I explained why I thought it was unrealistic. You countered, I countered. Etc, so on. This is how people discuss things on discussion boards. No need to get hurt about it. Would you rather I just respond to all posts with 'Yeah, that would be great, wouldn't it?' Like I said. Picking fights is super cool. Do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosGerbil Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 *pulls thread back on track* I came here to wildly speculate about A.M, okay? I thought that was the point. Let's make some predictions about Space Army guys. Whoever has the most accurate prophecy gets bragging rights (but then must be burned as a witch). Vendettas up 20 points, keep transport capacity but still refuse Ogryns and ponies Valkyries get a new missile option but stay about the same cost. Saber platforms or something similar in the book, light Artillery that can be added to platoons Either Bullgryns or Ogryns will rock but the other type will suck Lots of bitching and moaning by either guard players or the general community No Baneblade, but yes to a new heavier FW style tank A new type of ordnance or at least a new ammo mode Really hit or miss warlord table Cheaper weapon upgrades on vehicles and wargear Platoons stay the same in cost per guy at 5 pts., vets might change Orders that last multiple turns / all game as long as the commander lives (how cool would that be) New veteran skill option, hopefully tank hunters Homeworld benefits similar to Codex Space Marines chapter buffs Weird Force Org changes centering around platoons and auxilaries Stormtrooper as troops unlock character The Stormtroopers will be good but the vehicle will somehow be lame or too expensive One new character that's slightly broken One new character that is borderline useless. Russes will have 4 HP and lumbering behemoth will be fixed. Points stay about the same. New orders, something about buffs to fortifications and maybe superheavies Rough Riders improved but still die to like chumps to Gretchin throwing rocks. Please oh please AV 11 options on Chimera sides and rear... at 10 pts. 5 pt. dozer blades Free voxes, one per squad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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