Codex Daemons

[pretre]

Faction Focus: Tzeentch Daemons

Tzeentch Daemons have proven themselves one of the most popular armies in the latest edition of Warhammer 40,000, combining durability, a superb Psychic phase and some iconic and unusual miniatures that capture the hearts of players. With the new Codex: Chaos Daemons, you can field an army dedicated to the God of Change that’s more diverse than ever, combining standbys like Horrors with a range of new options.

Firstly, it’s worth reiterating the potential of the Locus of Trickery. While a little unpredictable, combined with your solid Invulnerable saves, this ability means your units are going to be very difficult to displace in close combat, while also helping your larger Daemons like the Lord of Change resist incoming close combat damage.

 

As you’d expect, Tzeentch armies have a panoply of magical tricks up their sleeves with new psychic powers. Gaze of Fate is a simple but effective example, allowing you to consistently generate free re-rolls – perfect if you want to preserve your Command Points for some of the powerful new Stratagems available to the army.

Locus of Conjuration is a key ability for Tzeentch armies – with it, you’ll be able to ensure success on trickier Psychic tests and ensure that your all-important Smites land – even if you’re playing with the recently-announced beta rules and have to deal with tests of escalating difficulty.

 

Tzeentch armies have the potential to be pretty deadly in the Shooting phase as well as the Psychic phase, thanks to the Flickering Flames psychic power. After all, with +1 to wound, even lesser Horrors have a shot at bringing down larger foes through sheer volume of fire.

Tzeentch players looking to design their own leaders will find the codex very rewarding as well, thanks to another set of Warlord Traits and Hellforged Artefacts to choose from. The Impossible Robe allows you to make a chosen Herald or Lord of Change astoundingly durable, especially when you take into account Ephemeral Form, which boosts the save to a 3+!

Tzeentch armies are perfect for players looking to master the Psychic phase and outsmart their foes – quite fitting for the god of scheming plots cunning plans! If you’re interested in starting a Tzeentch army, you can pre-order your codex this weekend, while the Start Collecting! Daemons of Tzeentch set is a great way to save money on the models your army needs.

[pretre]

Darkness is sweeping the 41st Millennium, and the mortal hordes of the Heretic Astartes are bolstered by legions of daemonic allies. Thanks to the Great Rift, the servants of the Chaos Gods have been pouring forth to devour reality in ever-greater numbers across the galaxy – so it’s about time they got a codex of their own! Codex: Chaos Daemons brings a raft of new ways to customise and play your Daemons army, offering particular rewards for those players who dedicate themselves to a single Chaos God.

While we’ve taken a look at the codex as a whole, this week, we’ll be looking into what each specific Chaos God can bring to the tabletop, starting with the Blood God, Khorne:

We’ve already looked at the Khornate Daemonic Locus, the aptly-named Locus of Rage, but it’s worth reiterating just how handy this ability is. Whether you’re looking to insert a deadly block of Bloodletters into the enemy frontlines, or you’ve got a tricky charge to make with a Bloodthirster, this helps you get your Daemons where they need to be as soon as possible.

Khorne armies also have some powerful artefacts on hand, ranging from deadly weaponry to some essential utility items. One particularly useful option is the Armour of Scorn; as well as upgrading the invulnerable save of a key Character, it’ll also help shore up your psychic defences against any cowards that dare use magic against a servant of the God of Murder!

Skullreaver, meanwhile, is quite possibly one of the deadliest weapons in the entire game. In the hands of a Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster, you’ll be able to carve through powerful Characters (even Daemon Primarchs of rival Chaos Gods) and enemy super-heavies with brutal efficiency.

Indeed, Greater Daemons of Khorne – or any Chaos God – have received a significant improvement in the new codex thanks to 24 (yes, 24!) Warlord Traits. For Khorne, you won’t want to overlook Oblivious to Pain, which provides an additional save against wounds, as well as forcing any enemy shooting at you to risk supercharging your favourite Character in the next turn:

Khorne Daemons may not be subtle, but they’re undeniably effective, whether you’re looking to dominate the battlefield with swarms of elite combat infantry or to grind skulls beneath the hooves of larger Daemons. You can pre-order your Chaos Daemons codex this weekend, while Start Collecting! Daemons of Khorne contains a great selection of models for you to get a headstart with.

The post Faction Focus: Daemons of Khorne appeared first on Warhammer Community.

[SPaceORK]

Welp... Lets hope Nurgle has some cool stuff and useful rules. These are kinda meh so far.

[InfestedKerrigan]

Faction Focus: Daemons of Nurgle

It’s been a pretty great few months for fans of Nurgle, with the mortal servants of the Plague God seeing some reinforcements last summer in the form of the Death Guard. Now, Nurgle’s Daemons are getting similar treatment, with army abilities, Hellforged Artefacts, Stratagems and new units of their own.

As we’ve discussed before, the Locus of Virulence is a new ability for those detachments dedicated wholly to Nurgle Daemons. Nurgle players are used to relying on their high durability, and now they can match that with several potent offensive bonuses.

For example, standard units of Plaguebearers make for an effective core to any Nurgle army, and their excellent durability can now be accompanied by several upgrades to damage from Stratagems, supporting abilities and Daemonic Loci.

The Plague Banner Stratagem, for instance, allows you to give a Nurgle unit a devastating damage boost on a single turn, and combines superbly with the Locus of Virulence.

What’s more, they’re very effective when fielded with the Spoilpox Scrivener. This is one of the new Heralds in Codex: Chaos Daemons that improves the fighting prowess of your infantry by relentlessly criticising them for not meeting their tallies. On the tabletop, this means you’ll move faster and hit more frequently, turning a unit that’s usually fulfilling the role of an objective-holder or defensive screen into a very respectable offensive option.

The new codex also brings an iconic hero you may recognise from the Mortal Realms into the 41st Millennium (the nature of Chaos is strange indeed…). You’ll be able to add Horticulous Slimux to your Daemons army, and he comes festooned with feculent features that’ll help your army out. For one, the Grand Cultivator provides significant bonuses to nearby Beasts of Nurgle, and for another, the Daemon can set up Feculent Gnarlmaws every movement phase, allowing you to quickly turn the battlefield into a foetid forest.

The Feculent Gnarlmaw is a new piece of scenery that fits into your army’s Fortification slot. On the battlefield, it’ll provide significant cover saves to your Nurgle units, shielding them against deadly first turn attacks, and when you want to counter-attack, you’ll be able to advance then charge (and shoot!) offering your usually slow Nurgle units a surprising turn of speed.

Finally, the Great Unclean One is the ideal option for Nurgle armies looking for a leader. You’ll be able to customise yours with new psychic powers, Warlord Traits, Hellforged Artefacts and wargear, allowing it to fulfil a range of roles. One particularly nasty option is the Horn of Nurgle’s Rot, which has an ability that allows you to bolster nearby units of Plaguebearers as you carve through the enemy.

In short, Nurgle armies are durable, relentless and surprisingly effective in close combat, combining superb infantry choices with deadly, and highly customisable, leaders. You’ll be able to find the rules for your Nurgle forces in Codex: Chaos Daemons, available to pre-order this weekend – in the meantime, why not start your army with a Start Collecting! Set?

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[Guest]

Maybe it's just me, but so far, I've been very "meh" about this new codex. Sounds like were basically getting everything back that we had in the last Codex Daemons and in the Chaos Index, plus a few GUO variants,  which is good, but nothing to write home about. Kinda disappointed so far. Doesn't sound like any of the Daemons are really going to do anything new or overly impressive. Tzeentch with still be psyker heavy, while Khorne, Slaanesh and Nurgle will still be melee focused. And the codex still won't have any decent ranged attacks - which is not a problem, just pointing out that nothing is really changing in the land of daemons. 

Now the thing that has not been mentioned, is if the Chaos Daemons are going to regain the deep strike option or if there's a plan for some means of getting to the enemy without just walking there.... 

[InfestedKerrigan]

Demonic Ritual isn't enough for you? Sheesh.

[WestRider]

6 hours ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

Demonic Ritual isn't enough for you? Sheesh.

With the Codex, Demonic Ritual actually got even worse. Now, not only do you need a Character who can get somewhere useful, and that spot needs to still be useful in the next Turn, and the stuff you Summon can't fulfill Detachment requirements, but it also can't receive Detachment benefits.

[Guest]

23 hours ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

Demonic Ritual isn't enough for you? Sheesh.

Sarcastic? 

Risk hurting your own guy and sacrificing their movement phase in order to pay full price to summon a mediocre unit to the battlefield under heavy deployment restrictions. It's not terrible, and certainly a handy tactical option, but it has more drawbacks than benefits and certainly isn't designed in a manner where it would be practical to have an army that relied on summoning.  

And the real kicker is how hard it is to summon the strong units, since to get like a bloodthrister, aside from needing 340pts of reserve, I would need to roll 17 on three dice AND take at least 1 mortal wound on my summoning character AND sacrifice my movement phase (which means I can't do it after deep striking, disembarking from a transport, or otherwise moving). 

On the other hand, summoning those FW daemons Lords of War is really easy, especially the slaanesh one, Zarakynel, since you can roll up to 9 dice on the FW version of daemonic ritual and she/he is only power level 23 (getting 23 on 9 dice isn't too difficult).

I do like that daemonic ritual cannot be countered by psychic deny rolls, like in prior editions where it was a psychic power. This version is much more Khorne friendly. 

[WestRider]

Faction Focus: Daemons of Slaanesh

Slaanesh may be the youngest of the Chaos Gods, but he’s certainly made his mark on the 41st Millennium since his birth (after all, while the Dark Gods have been working to destroy the Imperium of Man for 10,000 years, Slaanesh gutted the Aeldari empire in one particularly hungry afternoon).

Slaanesh’s Daemonic Locus allows your units to close the distance on the enemy with terrifying speed. Combined with the natural swiftness of your units, you’ll be able to compensate for your lack of shooting by hitting enemy lines before they can fully react.

Where the Daemons of Slaanesh really shine is using their Characters, from Heralds to Keepers of Secrets, thanks to a powerful suite of Hellforged Artefacts and Warlord Traits. The Mark of Excess is punishing when used against armies with a multitude of Characters or larger creatures. Against a force of Tyranids, or an Astra Militarum player making use of multiple Regimental Advisors, you’ll be able to cause havoc amongst the enemy ranks.

Indeed, with Quicksilver Duellist, one of the six Slaaneshi Warlord Traits in the book, Keepers of Secrets are superb Character assassins, but they can just as easily be transformed into invaluable battlefield support units. Combine yours with Bewitching Aura, and the enemy will find the combat potential of their units considerably reduced.

Servants of Slaanesh now have some new psychic powers to play with, too. The most interesting of these is Phantasmagoria, an ability that reduces enemy Leadership in a considerable radius. On its own, this power might not seem like much, but throw in some other Leadership reducing units, like Be’Lakor or some allied Heretic Astartes from the Night Lords, and morale casualties can start stacking up very quickly.

It’s not just about the characters, mind – Slaanesh armies have a range of options to help improve their standard infantry. Daemonettes move fast and hit hard, but can struggle with durability when they’re counter-attacked. Now, the Aura of Acquiescence Stratagem can be used to help them survive combat against your opponent’s most dangerous units. Alternatively, use the Rapturous Standard and tear through them before they can counter-attack!

In short, Slaaneshi armies are quick, absolutely deadly in close combat, and make for the perfect force for any player looking for a swift and lethal army to conquer the 41st Millennium with. Codex: Chaos Daemons is available to pre-order this weekend, and while you’re waiting to secure your copy, you can start collecting your Slaanesh Daemons army here.

[SPaceORK]

Yea, obviously don't have the book yet, but this release seems like hot trash.

Aside from the 12" flamers of course.

[WestRider]

2 hours ago, SPaceORK said:

Yea, obviously don't have the book yet, but this release seems like hot trash.

Aside from the 12" flamers of course.

Eh. I heard people saying the same thing about CSM and Nids when they were at this stage in the release process, and they seem fine now. Even more so than previously, it's really hard to get a feel for Codexes now without the full picture.

[Kremmet]

Ehh, this book is a little different than either CSM or nids as neither had to/did prop up other books as much as this one does (also both of those had more obvious power moves than Daemons does by this point in the reveal). Codex Daemons is, as it should be for balance issues, balanced around people bringing demons from other books which makes what's being offered so far seem internally weak. 

Mix that with rules such as Tzeentch's locus being a bookkeeping nightmare against combat armies and I think you'll see Codex Daemons is a different beast from what we've seen so far: an exotic support book. 

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, Kremmet said:

Ehh, this book is a little different than either CSM or nids as neither had to/did prop up other books as much as this one does (also both of those had more obvious power moves than Daemons does by this point in the reveal). Codex Daemons is, as it should be for balance issues, balanced around people bringing demons from other books which makes what's being offered so far seem internally weak. 

I think GW maybe purposely keeping daemons weak so as to promote synergy between CSM and Daemons. As is, while codex daemons does look weak, I suspect it will be very strong if HERETIC ASTARTES DAEMON models are able to benefit from things in both books. That is one of the key things that the IMPERIUM is rather unbalanced by, is that they can have lots of synergy within faction, while most other factions, like TAU or NECRONS have zero options outside of thier faction. 

For example, that Slaanesh Locus of Swiftness would allow Helldrakes, Daemon Princes, Warp Talons, Defilers and so forth to charge after advancing, provided they had the Mark of Slaanesh. Seems like the synergy potenial is rather abusive, even if the daemons aren't terribly potent on their own. 

 

[SPaceORK]

5 hours ago, paxmiles said:

I think GW maybe purposely keeping daemons weak so as to promote synergy between CSM and Daemons. As is, while codex daemons does look weak, I suspect it will be very strong if HERETIC ASTARTES DAEMON models are able to benefit from things in both books. That is one of the key things that the IMPERIUM is rather unbalanced by, is that they can have lots of synergy within faction, while most other factions, like TAU or NECRONS have zero options outside of thier faction. 

For example, that Slaanesh Locus of Swiftness would allow Helldrakes, Daemon Princes, Warp Talons, Defilers and so forth to charge after advancing, provided they had the Mark of Slaanesh. Seems like the synergy potenial is rather abusive, even if the daemons aren't terribly potent on their own. 

 

Ok... Wow.

Making a codex weak so as to support another codex is just bad game design. And they have never done this before. Codexs are either good by themselves or not, but they have never been designed to require another codex to function.

But let's say that's true. Allowing CSM demons to deepstrike? Well they either already have deepstrike (oblits, warptalons, etc) or can be given deepstrike via the alpha legion stratgem.

CSM demons that can really manipulate the psychic phase? Well that's only demon princes and unless they completely up the game on the demon psychic tree, CSM dp's already have access to the best psychic tree. So you can either manipulate a subpar psychic tree/weakened smite or roll with the almost broken CSM psychic tree.

Changing got nerfed to uselessness. -1 to changed to 6+ fnp? 0 reason to take him now. So no pushing mid field with oblits anymore with a -2 to hit.

The locus affecting CSM demons? Ok let's go with your example of the slaanesh locus. Warp talons and defilers are trash and the warp talons already can deepstrike or alpha legion deepstrike, which is a 1000% better. Helldrakes can already charge turn one. Demon princes are not meant to push upfield, ahead of the rest of the army. They need to hid, then strike or warptime and get a 1st turn charge anyways. And slaanesh oblits don't need to advance, they deepstrike then double tap.

Well ok if the slaanesh one is useless for CSM demons, then maybe the other ones might be good? No, they arnt. Khorne? Well besides zerkers nothing with Mark of khorne is worth playing outside a narrative battle. But let see anyways. Helldrakes? Dont really need to reroll charges when your 4" away. Defilers? They are gun platform, why are they charging? Warptalons? Again alpha legion makes rerolling charges worthless when you can park a 20 man unit 3" away. Oblits? Why are they not at max gun range? They arnt made for cc.

Well crap... How about tzeetch and nurgle locus? Ok the tzeetch one has promise. But I would still have to take essentially a tax to get rerolls on wc5 powers. Actually probably the best locus in semi competitive play. How bout that Nurgle locus tho? Solid on oblits actually due to the high number of shots, still would rather double tap with slaanesh though. Everyone else? Would rather have the CSM tricks as they are far more effective.

So is making a "support" codex stupid? Yes. Are the rules in the demon " support" codex good? Yes, if the CSM and DG codex did not exist. Am I super salty with all the leaked rules for demons even though I haven't seen the full codex? Yes. Will I be spamming 12" tzeentch flamers because it will most likely be the only build worthwhile? Yes, maybe, I dunno. I am really liking building ork pirates instead.

[Guest]

For starters, I don't think the daemon book is going to be weak, but I think they maybe trying to rein in the potential codex creep by not making daemons have an OP codex so as to prevent abuse when combined with the CSM codex (or the chaos index).

I think your reactions are a bit extreme to the examples. The Defiler, for example, isn't horrible, but his value is certainly more circumstantial than in prior editions.

[SPaceORK]

17 hours ago, paxmiles said:

 

I think your reactions are a bit extreme to the examples. The Defiler, for example, isn't horrible, but his value is certainly more circumstantial than in prior editions.

My reactions are based off dozens and dozens games with CSM, DG and demon index games against a myriad of opponents at all levels if play. Then applying that game experience to the new rules we have access too. IMO, 90% of the things we have seen are garbage or can be done better with other codexs using the same models. 

Now there are some nice things, being able to deepstrike two demon units (with alpha legion stratgem, one with the demon one), making a unit of Plaguebearers hit like a truck, 12" / 3 damage flamers. 

[Guest]

18 hours ago, SPaceORK said:

Well ok if the slaanesh one is useless for CSM demons, then maybe the other ones might be good? No, they arnt. Khorne? Well besides zerkers nothing with Mark of khorne is worth playing outside a narrative battle. But let see anyways. Helldrakes? Dont really need to reroll charges when your 4" away. Defilers? They are gun platform, why are they charging? Warptalons? Again alpha legion makes rerolling charges worthless when you can park a 20 man unit 3" away. Oblits? Why are they not at max gun range? They arnt made for cc.

Are you seriously using Defilers as a gun plaforms only? No wonder you think they suck. The Defiler has long range, yes, but it's points aren't justifyable as a gun platform. 

The Defiler strong point is melee vs T8 opponents (like imperial knights). Defiler Claws strike at S16 (wounds knights on 2s) and hit on 4+ without a degrading WS. The Defiler has smoke launchers, which are to aid it in getting to their opponent quickly (especially if their opponent is a super heavy that they need to survive against). 

Regarding legion traits, sure some legion traits are so good, you don't need allies. Alpha legion in particular, doesn't really use daemons, so has no fluffy need to include daemonic allies. Dismissing a codex's potential synergy because one or two legions don't need allies is hardly a basis. 

[SPaceORK]

Huh... Maybe your right? A almost 200 point, ws 4+, max 4 claw attacks, 8" move, 3+/5++/t7 monster seems amazing for close combat! I mean it'll only take two turns for it to get there, plus the awesome bonus of 5+ bs while getting there, making that battle cannon you have to take sure worth it's points! I mean even your double thermal cannon knight would only do like 5-10 wounds to it before it gets there. Gee that would mean it has like 2 attacks now... Well good thing you have WS 4+.

Yes, they are a gun platform, they hide in terrain for a sweet 2+/5++. Maybe have a mark of nurgle/slaneesh so they can get -1 to hit/5+ fnp from a spell. Then if something comes in your backline they can do enough damage to try and kill something. But either as a gun platform or cc unit they suffer from the fact any job you want them to do, something else can do it better or cheaper or both.

I mean they are cool if your trying to do a theme army or trying to forge the narrative. Heck an army of them with a chaos techmarine (warpsmith?) would be super cool to play. But they arnt worth their points either for cc or as a gun boat. But your going to get more points back as a gun platform.

Also... Yea alpha legion doesn't use demons in the fluff but so? I'm talking rules here. I could care less about fluff when looking at potential rules interactions and synergies. Big themed battles? Then yea for sure, but I'm still probably going to take what's cool looking over fluff.

[Guest]

The Defiler's battlecannon is zero points. So you aren't wasting points by not using the battlecannon.

Against a knight, you'd want two or three defilers, which is still cheaper than a knight.

Points wise, they did get a reduction in chapter approved. They are 140pts base. They should be around 175 each with their cheapest loadout. (EDIT: Minimum cost is 176 for defiler with Reaper Autocannon and Havoc Launcher.) 

They do self heal 1 wound per turn.

There is also that Daemon Forged stratagem which can be used to reroll hits and wounds.

[Guest]

Anyway, knights are more of an extreme example. The better target for defilers is buildings, which is more thematic anyway, as the defiler is supposed to be a siege unit more so than most of the other heavy support units. Other T8 opponents, like vindicators or leman russes, are also viable targets for defiler melee. And you can boost defiler melee by taking the Power Scourge option, which is spendy, but grants them an extra 3 S12 attacks per combat phase (meaning they have 7 base attacks which can degrade to a minimum of 5 attacks total). 

And sure, if the opponent presents no targets worth going into melee with, then you can camp and fire the battle cannon. It's a very expensive unit to dedicate in this role, but it's a versatility option. Sometimes having that long range will be the key to dealing with certain armies, but usually it's a waste due to the degrading BS4+ on the defiler. 

I will note that the Warpsmith is unable to repair the defiler, as I read it, because the warpsmith can't repair units that have already healed that turn, so the self healing ability interfers with the repair option. Could be wrong here - I'd prefer to be wrong here. The FW Warpsmith (Hellwright) has the same wording in this respect. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, SPaceORK said:

Huh... Maybe your right? A almost 200 point, ws 4+, max 4 claw attacks, 8" move, 3+/5++/t7 monster seems amazing for close combat! I mean it'll only take two turns for it to get there, plus the awesome bonus of 5+ bs while getting there, making that battle cannon you have to take sure worth it's points! I mean even your double thermal cannon knight would only do like 5-10 wounds to it before it gets there. Gee that would mean it has like 2 attacks now... Well good thing you have WS 4+.

Yes, they are a gun platform, they hide in terrain for a sweet 2+/5++. Maybe have a mark of nurgle/slaneesh so they can get -1 to hit/5+ fnp from a spell. Then if something comes in your backline they can do enough damage to try and kill something. But either as a gun platform or cc unit they suffer from the fact any job you want them to do, something else can do it better or cheaper or both.

If comparing to the Dual Thermal Cannon Knight, the cover is rather meaningless, as -4 to your armor save makes the invulnerable save the better option every time.

I will note that the Thermal Cannons have been FAQed to be d6 shots each, regardless of the number of models in the unit (prior to the FAQ, they were d3 shots unless the target had 5 or more models). So with two thermal cannons, I have 2d6 shots. 

Should be about 5-10 wounds per turn if it focuses, possibly more if the defiler is within 18". So about 2 turns to destroy 1 defiler. Yes, you can boost this with psychic powers, but now you are increasing the effective cost of the defiler by the cost of the psyker - not a bad idea, just pointing it out. 

But that knight is 476pts. Even if you can just draw it's fire with 1 defiler for 2 turns, seems a valid use. 

[SPaceORK]

2 hours ago, paxmiles said:

I will note that the Thermal Cannons have been FAQed to be d6 shots each, regardless of the number of models in the unit (prior to the FAQ, they were d3 shots unless the target had 5 or more models). So with two thermal cannons, I have 2d6 shots. 

Really? That's awesome. I must have completely missed that! Double thermal is actually pretty good now.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, SPaceORK said:

Really? That's awesome. I must have completely missed that! Double thermal is actually pretty good now.

Yeah, definitely makes them more viable. Both the Renegade and loyalist versions got this update in the FAQ for those books. 

That said, like the Defilers in melee, the dual thermal cannons really only shine against T8+ opponents. Most of the time, dual rapid battle cannons are better (though the battlecannons are certainly more expensive). My plan is mainly use the Knight in melee, since I think Stomp is just fine for most opponents. 

At some point, it could be fun to try running Skarbrand with Renegade Knights. Skarbrand grants them +1 attack (as well as everything else, friend or foe, within 8"). Knights, since they can get 3 swings for every attack, stand to gain the most from this sort of boost. A Lord of Skulls would also work well here.