pretre Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 From War of Sigmar: Hello everyone !! It's time for our Review of the commander box set. As you surely know tomorow the second Kill Team extension : Commanders will hit the shelves. Do you want to include Heroes and Leaders into you kill team game ? You want equip them ? give them trait ? or even levels ? You can do it with the commander boxset. My first impression when I heard about this xpack wasn't super good. does Killteam that is already a great Game workshop games (my favorite right now) really need multi wounds/super strong heroes ? I am not sure, let's find out ! What's in the box ? There is no model included. Soft cover book (120 pages) 1 tactics cards deck (~35 cards) 6 psychic cards 1 Deck of blank commander cards. 1 punchboard with life token and some other stuffs. What are Commanders ? Commanders are a special kind of Kill Team unit, representing the very best of the best. Made up of everything from talented leaders to deadly solo combatants, each Commander is the equal of multiple ordinary troops. Commanders can be used in special open, narrative and matched play missions that allow higher points limits than ordinary games of Kill Team, enabling you to include a Commander alongside your normal kill team or field a larger kill team against them. Every single Kill Team faction has a commander or two to choose from, with each drawing from a brand-new pool of specialisms, customisable traits and, in some cases, psychic disciplines. Unlike ordinary members of your kill team, Commanders don’t gain experience or level up – instead, you’ll be able to buy levels for them using points when you add them to your Kill Team, making them incredibly customizable. Let's now look at the details Rules of commanders Commanders differ not only by their power but they also have some special rules on how to play them. Including commander -You can have only one commander in the kill team. - You can only choose a commander in a mission where they are allowed. (and you MUST pick one) -You can have more than one commander on the roster but only one in the kill team. So yea in a non commander mission you can't select it. All commanders allowing missions are 200pt limit and MUST include one. So in a sense it's more designed like a mission feature than an optimisation option. Specialisms -When you select a commander he get to choose a specialty that does not count toward the Max limit for them. These are new specialisms reserved to them. -If you have more than one commander on the roster they can't have the same specialism. Extract of the Logistic Specialism Extract of the Stealth Specialism Commander Level when you select a commander you choose his lvl 1 2 3 or 4. off course a lvl 4 commander is super expensive. But if you want a lvl 4 primaris captain it's possible and only cost 154 points. Some other commanders are weaker but a lot more affordable Tactics In addition to any tactics the warband can already use, the commander can use : -3 common tactics -1 to 3 for your specific commander. Thats a lot of tactics, better to have cards to remember them all ! When you think about it you have : Tactics from core, tactics from faction choice, tactics from specialism, tactics from commander, tactics from commander faction and lastly tactics from commander specialism, tactics from kill worlds... Commander Traits When you select your commander you can also buy a commander trait. There are some very interesting choices but it cost a few extra points (5 to 20). Like most traits options there is 6 choice. Aura tactics Kill Team : commander includes a new type of Tactics, called aura tactics. Aura tactics are 'passive' abilities that once activated grant a bonus until end of turn or phase. Psychic power There are 6 psychic power available. To get one you have to exchange Psybolt or another psychic power present on the profile against one from the list (you can choose if you want) Lot of different Commanders There are 41 (excluding named). Most of them are super strong but limited to certain missions where the opponent get to bring a Commander too. This way no one is disadvantaged. Here some example : Conclusion This review is kind of short because the content is limited (and I am eager to start on the Speed Freeks Review ^^) My take on Commander : When we heard of commander. I was wondering how to not break the game with super strong Multiwounds models. Now I that read the book i think that : Sure some of the commanders are super strong or supports their teams with strong buff. But they can only be included on specific mission where everyone MUST bring one commander. If everyone must have one, it's more a mission feature than a list building opportunity. It's like playing a 40k scenario where you can get one (strong) scenery piece for free and it's fine. In definitive Commander is a good idea spice things up, I hope they make a consolidated tournament/mission document that organiser can download with a special table for generating missions. Sorry for the delays on this review. /Cheers. Bob. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 Now, if they add rules allowing the option to bring a light-ish vehicle (i.e., Rhino, Chimera, Raider) and we’ve got ourselves a fantastic way to play smaller scope skirmish 40k. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 55 minutes ago, Ish said: Now, if they add rules allowing the option to bring a light-ish vehicle (i.e., Rhino, Chimera, Raider) and we’ve got ourselves a fantastic way to play smaller scope skirmish 40k. I kind of also want to see something that brings in more fast stuff. Jump Infantry and Bikes and such. Like with Commanders, it would good as an option for specific Missions designed for them, but they could be game-breaking in regular KT Games, just because it wasn't designed for that level of mobility. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 I think that Kill Team would work quite well if they added Assault Marines, Chaos Raptors, (almost all of the) Eldar Aspect Warriors, Imperial Guard Veterans, Kroot, Ork Stormboyz, (almost all of the) Sisters of Battle, Vespids, and Zoats*. Assault Marines, Chaos Raptors, Vespids, and Swooping Hawks wouldn't be that different from Primaris Reivers, in terms of over all mobility and weaponry; Kroot and Striking Scorpions are supposed to be the behind-the-lines commando element of their respective factions; and the lack of Imperial Guard Veterans is just criminal. * Okay, maybe not Zoats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 3 hours ago, Ish said: Now, if they add rules allowing the option to bring a light-ish vehicle (i.e., Rhino, Chimera, Raider) and we’ve got ourselves a fantastic way to play smaller scope skirmish 40k. Smaller scope, but rapidly becoming a same speed game... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 Ten Marines and a Librarian versus twenty Guardsmen and a Chimera? Shouldn't take more than an hour, once everyone is thoroughly familiar with the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted October 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 24 minutes ago, Ish said: Ten Marines and a Librarian versus twenty Guardsmen and a Chimera? Shouldn't take more than an hour, once everyone is thoroughly familiar with the rules. I may still be learning but 100 point games take a lot longer than an hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 2 hours ago, Ish said: Assault Marines, Chaos Raptors, Vespids, and Swooping Hawks wouldn't be that different from Primaris Reivers, in terms of over all mobility and weaponry; Moving twice as fast (or even faster than that, in the case of the Hawks) is pretty different mobility to my mind. Raptors and Assault Marines also have way more options than Reivers, and substantially more powerful ones. For Kroot, Striking Scorpions, and AM Vets, I am 100% in agreement with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romans832 Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 I know NOTHING... That Death Jester's rules look sick... Yes or no?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 20 minutes ago, WestRider said: Moving twice as fast (or even faster than that, in the case of the Hawks) is pretty different mobility to my mind. Raptors and Assault Marines also have way more options than Reivers, and substantially more powerful ones. It would depend a lot on how they were costed. Moving that fast and carrying they weapons they do is nice, but if they're 30+ Points a pop...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 25 minutes ago, Ish said: It would depend a lot on how they were costed. Moving that fast and carrying they weapons they do is nice, but if they're 30+ Points a pop...? I'm not saying they couldn't be balanced. Just that your comparison with Reivers doesn't really work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 I was comparing only their ability to ignore terrain, that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 16 minutes ago, Ish said: I was comparing only their ability to ignore terrain, that's all. But what you actually typed was "over all mobility and weaponry", which is a whole different kettle of fish. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 Chainswords and bolt pistols, heavy bolt pistols and combat knives... Pretty similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Ish said: Ten Marines and a Librarian versus twenty Guardsmen and a Chimera? Shouldn't take more than an hour, once everyone is thoroughly familiar with the rules. It's about number of units. A 2k game still rarely features 21 different units. 1 model units makes it a bit faster, but just a bit. And it's not like kill team has simplified rules that make for a faster game, no, its not a faster game, just normally one with less units. This is especially true if each unit is built differently. Basically, kill team is faster because playing with less units is faster. If you want this sort of faster 40k, try playing with a unit cap and forcing players to move large units on movement trays (effectively making them single model units). Could also have large batches of dice rolled in multiples of 10 (so like this d6 is treated as 10x of whatever number it shows, rather than rolling 10 dice), would speed things up. Try playing 40k with only imperial knights (or bane blades, or some other low unit-count army). Really does speed up the game to have less units to activate or deploy. But if you just want a quick game, 40k isn't really marketing itself as a quick game. Neither is kill team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 20 minutes ago, Ish said: Chainswords and bolt pistols, heavy bolt pistols and combat knives... Pretty similar. Then the Assault Squad also gets Flamers or Plasma Pistols, an Eviscerator if you want, and basically any CC gear you want on the Sarge. Raptors get Plasmaguns and Meltaguns on top of that. When you're only taking a couple of Models from any given Squad, those individual upgrades make a huge difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 @WestRider: GW doesn't have to allow all the weapons that these models can take in WH40k to be an option in KT. There is precedent for this already in the game. @paxmiles: It might not not be faster, I feel like it is, but I don't have any empirical proof of this. Regardless, I just enjoy miniture wargames of smaller scope. Its a personal preference and I don't want to be the sort of guy who tells others that they're "having fun wrong." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, Ish said: @WestRider: GW doesn't have to allow all the weapons that these models can take in WH40k to be an option in KT. There is precedent for this already in the game. As far as I know, tho, they have allowed all options that are actually in any given kit. The ones I'm aware of that they've disallowed are things like Heavy Weapons that don't come in the box for the basic Squad. Everything I mentioned there is actually in those kits, doesn't need to be taken from anywhere else or converted or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 28 minutes ago, Ish said: @paxmiles: It might not not be faster, I feel like it is, but I don't have any empirical proof of this. Regardless, I just enjoy miniture wargames of smaller scope. Its a personal preference and I don't want to be the sort of guy who tells others that they're "having fun wrong." Should definitely try 40k with just imperial knights (or otherwise 3-5 lords of war). Anyway, you are welcome to enjoy it however you want. Didn't mean to impose on you. I think I need to go eat something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 1 hour ago, paxmiles said: Should definitely try 40k with just imperial knights (or otherwise 3-5 lords of war). I'm strongly considering doing a four-model Chaos Renegade Knight army, if I get the end of year bonus that is rumored to be in the works. Each one themed for one of the Ruinous Powers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 Looking at the pricing on the Commander packs, the Primaris Librarian is the same as the model by itself, the Magos Dominus saves a buck, and all the rest are a substantially worse buy. Like almost twice the cost of the base model bad buy, in many cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 23 minutes ago, WestRider said: Looking at the pricing on the Commander packs, the Primaris Librarian is the same as the model by itself, the Magos Dominus saves a buck, and all the rest are a substantially worse buy. Like almost twice the cost of the base model bad buy, in many cases. You mean in cash? Or Points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 Never mind. Looking at GW's prices. https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Kill-Team-Commanders-2018-eng Commander's expansion is $60, Base rulebook is $40. That makes the buy-in $100, plus models. Too expensive for me as a side game, I'd rather buy more 40k. I'm not that invested yet. Can always play 40k at low points. I'll sell my kill team book. Maybe someone can enjoy a used copy at GG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 You don’t need to buy the Commander expansion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 6 hours ago, Ish said: You don’t need to buy the Commander expansion. Too late, it's done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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