Bombs?

[fluger]

Can a model with bombs drop them all in one movement phase?

Seems like I could drop both bombs on the same run, but I'm not 100% on this.

 

[Ish]

"[D]rop a bomb. ... (S)elect an enemy unit that [the model] moved over."

Singular in both instances. So I'd day no to being able to drop more than one bomb in a given turn.

[WestRider]

It reads to me like it's supposed to be one per Turn, but it is GW, so who knows?

[fluger]

I can't think of any real life or game balance reason not to drop two (or more) in one phase.  

To me, the restriction reads like it is just how many times one can perform the following action per game.  There is never any stipulation that it can't do it more than once per movement phase.

Just wondering what others think.

[Ish]

You can drop a bomb. That's one. You select one select an enemy unit to target. That's one. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, WestRider said:

It reads to me like it's supposed to be one per Turn, but it is GW, so who knows?

I agree on both points.

[Guest]

As an aside, if anyone has any extras of the Ork Bombs (those WW2 looking bombs), I'm hopping to get some for my TAU....

[Dusldorf]

It's FAQ territory, but I read it as once per turn.

[Guest]

21 hours ago, fluger said:

Can a model with bombs drop them all in one movement phase?

Seems like I could drop both bombs on the same run, but I'm not 100% on this.

 

Thinking about it more. I think thematically, it would be fine to drop both bombs at the same time. So no issue there.

 

And from a game balance stance, it can only deal up to 3 mortal wounds per bomb to a vehicle/monster (6 with both bombs), with other targets being able to only deal up to 1 mortal wound per model in said unit. So even if you use this to target my character, you'd use both bombs to deal at most, 1 mortal wound to my character per bomb (so 2 with both bombs), which is nothing.

And the Rule of 3 prevents any real spamming. I mean, at 2k it would be able to deal a max of 18 mortal wounds with 3x bombers, all somehow being able to fly over a single monster/vehicle. Though that's the max. Realistically, it would deal 9 mortal wounds with 3 units. Characters aren't at real risk, either, as with 3x bombers, you'd deal an average of 3 mortal wounds (6 max) with 3x bombers, each dropping 2x bombs.

Plus, all I have to do is stand in the back corner and you can't use this on my guys without flying off the table...and I'd contest that you can't use this if you fly off the table, since that destroys you before you have the option to use it. So if I, knowing you've deployed 3x bombers, decide to place my model so you can bomb my unit with all 3 of the bombers turn 1, that seems like it's my fault.

 

So I don't think it needs the FAQ. Double bomb if you want.

 

Rules wise, does seem like you'd resolve each bomb one at a time. So if you target same unit twice and it loses models, you might get less dice for the second bomb.

[Guest]

By comparison, the TAU Sunshark Bomber can attempt to drop a bomb every turn (but only 1). 1 unit per turn, each roll of 5+ is a mortal wound. +1 to the roll for Infantry. Cap is 10x dice rolled per unit. No bonus dice for vehicles or monsters.

And in fairness, the old edition's TAU rules for this was basically an anti-infantry bomb that shot every turn with a blast. So it's about the same as it was.

Ork version is better in the short term. Both really aren't very impressive.

[Ish]

How the heck do you read “drop a bomb” and “select an enemy unit” to mean “drop two bombs” and “select multiple units”?

This is one of the few times GW’s rules seem unambiguous to me.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Ish said:

How the heck do you read “drop a bomb” and “select an enemy unit” to mean “drop two bombs” and “select multiple units”?

This is one of the few times GW’s rules seem unambiguous to me.

First sentence. Says it can drop a bomb up to twice per battle. Then it goes on to describe the effect of dropping a bomb, which is used after the model has moved.

Nothing in the ability states that you couldn't do it twice in the same turn, as written. 

First use, you use the ability after you move. Do what it says. Second use in the same phase, which is also after you moved. Doesn't say once per phase and the movement is not part of the ability. So you'd be able to resolve it a second time within the written rules.

At that point, you'd have met your "up to twice per battle" limit and no longer be able to use it.

 

[Ish]

Twice per battle after you move, you may drop a bomb on an enemy unit. 

Singular.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Ish said:

Twice per battle after you move, you may drop a bomb on an enemy unit. 

Singular.

Not what it says. No line in that ability is as clear cut as you suggest.
Says:

Quote

Up to twice per battle, this model can drop a boom bomb on enemy units as it flies over enemy units in your movement phase.

 

That's line 1.
 

Quote

After the model has moved, select an enemy unit that it moved over.

 

And line 2.

Now you can copy and paste, instead of paraphrasing.

I agree, that if you put the two into one single sentence as you paraphased, the meaning is as you say. But as each sentence is a complete thought, keeping them separate means that they are describing two thoughts.

As written, you can use the ability once or twice in the same movement phase, but only up to two times total.

[Ish]

“[T]his model can drop a bomb[.]”

Emphasis mine. A bomb is singular.

“(S)elect an enemy unit...”

Emphasis mine. An enemy unit is singular.

It is one attack against one target.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Ish said:

“[T]his model can drop a bomb[.]”

Emphasis mine. A bomb is singular.

“(S)elect an enemy unit...”

Emphasis mine. An enemy unit is singular.

It is one attack against one target.

You've changed the meaning of the sentence by changing the sentence.

[Guest]

Here, switch to D&D nouns:

Quote

Up to twice per DAY, this model can drop a FIREBALL on enemy units as it flies over enemy units in your movement phase.

How are you concluding that this line indicates a limit of fireballs per movement phase? That could be the intention, but it certainly doesn't say that. The mentioned limit is on Fireballs per day.

[Ish]

You’ve pluralized “units” in your D&D example. The original text explicitly states that you target an enemy unit.

[Ish]

You have two uses of the bomb ability for the whole game.

You can use it after you move, to target an enemy unit that you moved over.

 

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Ish said:

You’ve pluralized “units” in your D&D example. The original text explicitly states that you target an enemy unit.

This is what I've been saying, you've combined two sentences. In the first sentence, Units is plural. My D&D *example* is the first line with two words swapped for two other words, and those words are all in caps. That's it. No other changes

[WestRider]

1 minute ago, paxmiles said:

This is what I've been saying, you've combined two sentences. In the first sentence, Units is plural. My D&D example is the first line with two words swapped for two other words. That's it.

It's plural in the first sentence because the thing can fly over multiple Units. That has no relevance to how many bombs it can drop.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, WestRider said:

It's plural in the first sentence because the thing can fly over multiple Units. That has no relevance to how many bombs it can drop.

I agree, but Ish said I had changed it to be plural, which I had not, so I was clarifying. He keeps combining the first two sentences, which I think slants the meaning.

[Guest]

Anyway, I don't play orks, so it really doesn't matter much. I think I'm done. I don't think I'm wrong, RAW, but entirely possible I am wrong RAI. There really isn't enough text to properly debate this one. @flugerI suggest asking the opponent ahead of time if you think it will come up. It really isn't very powerful, so I don't foresee a problem either way.

Dropping both bombs really isn't much more potent than a single casting of Smite, so I don't foresee game breaking challenges regardless of how the opponent wants to run it, especially given the times per game limit and the rule of 3 limiting your bombers.

[Ish]

“Up to twice per battle, this model can drop a bomb as it flies over enemy units in your Movement phase.”

This sets a limit on how many times you can use it during a game: Twice.

It specifies how many bombs you can drop: A bomb.

It specifies when it can happen: in your movement phase when you fly over enemy units.

“After the model has moved, select an enemy unit that it moves over.”

This sentence specifies the target: an enemy unit the model moved over.

A bomb. An enemy unit.

 

[fluger]

2 hours ago, Ish said:

“A bomb. An enemy unit.

 

Which you can do twice a game.

And it never says only once per turn.

Its giving the effect of one bomb because that makes logical sense.  Its not a weapon, it has its own operation.

Ultimately, I don't have a horse in this race as I don't own the model.