Apocalypse Game at WOW?

[Lyraeus]

I am curious at how many people would participate in an Apocalypse game at WOW on a Saturday possibly? 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

I am curious at how many people would participate in an Apocalypse game at WOW on a Saturday possibly? 

Using the new apoc rules? GW's said that they're going to release that expansion next (or maybe they already did).

Or did you just mean a very high point game?

 

In anycase, I'd have to work towards it. Aside from transportation issues, my forces aren't ready for apoc at the moment. I very much enjoy it, though.

[Torg]

depending on the particular Saturday ... I am nearly always down - big toys on the table?  (yes please).  we've done big games in the big room with all the tables shoved together in the past - and quite a few folks at ORDO know how to make a game move and finish (full rounds) on time.

 

-d

[Dark Trainer]

I would think we should try to wait for the new rules coming out?

[Chikin]

I’m always down to bring some big bugs to the table. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Dark Trainer said:

I would think we should try to wait for the new rules coming out?

Don't need to. Current rules scale fine.

Main concern is if you scale too high, the cap on duplicate stratagems or duplicate psychic powers will really nerf what you can do on that end. Not really a problem, but makes certain kinds of lists more iffy. Especially if each side is treated as a single player for rules purposes.

Like the smite spam nerf is reasonable at 2k, but at 20k per side psyker spam just becomes obsolete.

[Lyraeus]

5 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Don't need to. Current rules scale fine.

Main concern is if you scale too high, the cap on duplicate stratagems or duplicate psychic powers will really nerf what you can do on that end. Not really a problem, but makes certain kinds of lists more iffy. Especially if each side is treated as a single player for rules purposes.

Like the smite spam nerf is reasonable at 2k, but at 20k per side psyker spam just becomes obsolete.

That's an easy thing to go around. At some point you just double the use. Let's say every 3k points allows you another use of the same Stratagem per phase. 

 

So a 9k per side apocalypse game would mean you can use the same stratagem 3 times per phase. 

6 hours ago, Dark Trainer said:

I would think we should try to wait for the new rules coming out?

That is something I am looking at. I don't have enough orks put together yet to do a proper apoc game for me (might get 4000ish with what I have.... Maybe) so time is a thing. I am looking more mid July at best

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Lyraeus said:

That's an easy thing to go around. At some point you just double the use. Let's say every 3k points allows you another use of the same Stratagem per phase. 

That's one, perfectly valid approach. 

Another would be to remove stratagems entirely. Apocalypse already runs into speed issues without stratagems. If you'd have 20 CP at 2k, imagine 100cp at 10k...

Or you could elimininate the CP pool and have some sort of pre-purchased stratagems, though dunno if that would help on speed. 

 

[Torg]

hmmmm last few dozen year of games of Apoc I have played had no restrictions on the printed rules for Apoc.  We have always finished full games ... and never time issues.  Due to structure and time limits put into place for each sides rounds to take place.  And because apoc is just a fun big messy game to play with big toys or lots of minis without worry about "gaming" the system.

 

d

[Lyraeus]

13 hours ago, paxmiles said:

That's one, perfectly valid approach. 

Another would be to remove stratagems entirely. Apocalypse already runs into speed issues without stratagems. If you'd have 20 CP at 2k, imagine 100cp at 10k...

Or you could elimininate the CP pool and have some sort of pre-purchased stratagems, though dunno if that would help on speed. 

 

Removing CP or stratagems removes key elements of what makes. 8th edition what it is. 

Doing the first means you are no longer playing 8th edition and armies balanced on their use of stratagems become far less so. 

 

The the removal of the CP cost means you are just playing 7th edition lite.

[Lyraeus]

13 hours ago, Torg said:

hmmmm last few dozen year of games of Apoc I have played had no restrictions on the printed rules for Apoc.  We have always finished full games ... and never time issues.  Due to structure and time limits put into place for each sides rounds to take place.  And because apoc is just a fun big messy game to play with big toys or lots of minis without worry about "gaming" the system.

 

d

I would love to get your thoughts via pm on such things. Having not played apoc.... Since 5th edition, I am beyond rusty

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Lyraeus said:

Removing CP or stratagems removes key elements of what makes. 8th edition what it is. 

Doing the first means you are no longer playing 8th edition and armies balanced on their use of stratagems become far less so. 

 

The the removal of the CP cost means you are just playing 7th edition lite.

Armies are definitely not balanced on the usage of stratagems or the presence of CP. The stratagems and CP themselves have their own balance to some degree, but you could easily play without them with no loss. Might need to change some tactics or list creation, but it wouldn't unbalance the game.

And 7th ed was VERY different, with CP and stratagems probably being the smallest change. Biggest changes are things like always wounding on 6s, or the removal of armor values, or the rather drastic changes to the flyer rules. Movement values is also new to this edition (was part of 3rd, but we've had 4 editions without them).

[Lyraeus]

11 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Armies are definitely not balanced on the usage of stratagems or the presence of CP. The stratagems and CP themselves have their own balance to some degree, but you could easily play without them with no loss. Might need to change some tactics or list creation, but it wouldn't unbalance the game.

And 7th ed was VERY different, with CP and stratagems probably being the smallest change. Biggest changes are things like always wounding on 6s, or the removal of armor values, or the rather drastic changes to the flyer rules. Movement values is also new to this edition (was part of 3rd, but we've had 4 editions without them).

/sigh.... 

No, we will not be implementing your ideas. I am sorry but I find no value to doing either of them. 

 

If you wish to do these you can set up your own event and manage the rules used. Thank you for. Your input, I look forward to more ideas you have

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

/sigh.... 

No, we will not be implementing your ideas. I am sorry but I find no value to doing either of them. 

 

If you wish to do these you can set up your own event and manage the rules used. Thank you for. Your input, I look forward to more ideas you have

So then you have a specific event in mind, not just:

On 4/9/2019 at 12:28 PM, Lyraeus said:

I am curious at how many people would participate in an Apocalypse game at WOW on a Saturday possibly? 

 

[Lyraeus]

38 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

So then you have a specific event in mind, not just:

 

Well who is going to run such an event? If I find interest then someone will have to run it. 

 

Are you volunteering to do so? 

[Torg]

14 hours ago, Lyraeus said:

I would love to get your thoughts via pm on such things. Having not played apoc.... Since 5th edition, I am beyond rusty

Anytime, I’d love to discuss a big game.  Our most recent game of apoc was on Black Friday up in Vancouver at fate and fury games.  Was great fun — not complicated.  It was really just a big game of 8th Ed.  With lots of big toys getting blown up lol. 

We also played with special terrain features as well.  Looking forward to another game like that.  We had a very loose story as well.  It lasted all day - with breaks for food and no real problems. 

-d

[Torg]

Here is my blog link to that last game... of APOC that I have been involved in.

 

-d

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

Well who is going to run such an event? If I find interest then someone will have to run it. 

 

Are you volunteering to do so? 

I was planning to run one last black friday. Posted it in april. Then a month or so before, Torg posted his own event and I was thinking about canceling anyway, so it worked out. And I hear Torg's event was pretty fun.

I did put black friday on the ordo calendar for this year, just for others, but haven't decided on anything yet.

But if you want to participate in a black friday apoc event, I could run that. Might be nice to have another person "co-run" it. You or someone else.

 

As for the CP, they were just ideas. Was under the impression you wanted to open-mindly talk about apoc stuff, at least from the initial post. But your later posts seem to give me the impression you have something specific in mind, which is fine, just not really what I was responding to.