Lord Hanaur Posted October 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Unless you're playing against the majority of the field that is either fearless or ATSKNF. :) which the "majority of the field" isnt, in fact, fearless and the power codex's ARENT ATSKNF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Let's just take a quick sampling... http://www.frontlinegaming.org/community/frontline-gamings-independent-tournament-circuit/itc-individual-event-results/ Obviously, that's not a definitive list, but it's a good starting point. Going through the Guardian Cup we have 214 armies listed. Of those, 99 have ASTKNF or Fearless (or pseudo fearless in the case of Daemons) outright. So, that's just 46% of the field. But, the trick is, how many of those lists have things inside of them that make them immune to fear? Astra Militarum lists could be packing cheap as chips priests, as could sisters. Neither of which I counted. Orks could be mostly composed of Bully Boyz. Beyond that, the fact is that lots of the lists that might fail fear and be effected don't care because they are probably going to fold up in combat anyway, like Tau or the tiny dire avenger units to get MOAR wave serpents. So, yes, you might get them to fail Ld8 and hit you on 5s instead of 4s, but odds are they are dying anyway. Also, lots of those lists are going have lots of vehicles, which ALSO don't care about fear. Honestly, the only army that is REALLY going to care are Orks. That's about it. And Orks are going to have an uphill battle vs DE no matter how you slice it. Mass Poison WRECKS massive units of Orks and they have enough high strength shooting to get rid of flimsy Ork vehicles. So, I'm not going to definitively say that the MAJORITY of armies are going to be immune to fear out of hand, I just don't think its that exciting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted October 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Embrace your iconoclast nature and disregard those who would seek to dissuade you. I mean, you KNOW that your opinions are contrarian of popular opinion, so getting flak should be second nature. I think you're mad most of the time, but I still like watching your ideas play out. Mad as a hatter? Well my take has always been simple: if i can do it, I'm not so smart that you can't. Heres a batrep that kinda shows this army in action. We disagree on the ending of the game because he forgot about an entire unit of Wracks and their raider that were right on his objective when my turn came up. But whatevs. Still illusrtrates not only the way it works but what it looks like when i colossally flub with iton the charge. Linktasticness 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted October 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Let's just take a quick sampling... http://www.frontlinegaming.org/community/frontline-gamings-independent-tournament-circuit/itc-individual-event-results/ Obviously, that's not a definitive list, but it's a good starting point. Going through the Guardian Cup we have 214 armies listed. Of those, 99 have ASTKNF or Fearless (or pseudo fearless in the case of Daemons) outright. So, that's just 46% of the field. But, the trick is, how many of those lists have things inside of them that make them immune to fear? Astra Militarum lists could be packing cheap as chips priests, as could sisters. Neither of which I counted. Orks could be mostly composed of Bully Boyz. Beyond that, the fact is that lots of the lists that might fail fear and be effected don't care because they are probably going to fold up in combat anyway, like Tau or the tiny dire avenger units to get MOAR wave serpents. So, yes, you might get them to fail Ld8 and hit you on 5s instead of 4s, but odds are they are dying anyway. Also, lots of those lists are going have lots of vehicles, which ALSO don't care about fear. Honestly, the only army that is REALLY going to care are Orks. That's about it. And Orks are going to have an uphill battle vs DE no matter how you slice it. Mass Poison WRECKS massive units of Orks and they have enough high strength shooting to get rid of flimsy Ork vehicles. So, I'm not going to definitively say that the MAJORITY of armies are going to be immune to fear out of hand, I just don't think its that exciting. Priests arent fearless. Actually. They are zealots. just to be fair. And the majority of armies while they might have a fearless unit in there, thats really not a hair im going to split with anyone. The reality is, of the 17 or so codex's, most do not feature fearless as their primary "thing" and they have plenty of units to send screaming off the board. also the most highly competitive armies are not really fearless by their nature. So I'm really okay with it working "more often than it doesn't". I see no reason to minimize what IS there to be had and the price for having that ability is miniscule and disposable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Priests arent fearless. Actually. They are zealots. And what do you think Zealot does? Fluger brought up some great points about how fear affects the field (i.e. it really doesn't). Play it how you want, but don't expect it to have a lot of impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted October 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 And what do you think Zealot does? Fluger brought up some great points about how fear affects the field (i.e. it really doesn't). Play it how you want, but don't expect it to have a lot of impact. I know what zealot does. One of the things it DOESNT do is make you fearless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 I know what zealot does. One of the things it DOESNT do is make you fearless. You're being a pedant. For the purposes of this argument (units immune to fear), Zealot makes you effectively fearless. Especially since the language is exactly the same. "A unit containing one or more models with the Zealot special rule automatically passes Pinning, Fear and Regroup tests and Morale checks, but cannot Go to Ground and cannot choose to fail a Morale check due to the Our Weapons Are Useless rule. If a unit gains the Zealot special rule when it has Gone to Ground, all the effects of Go to Ground are immediately cancelled." "Units containing one or more models with the Fearless special rule automatically pass Pinning, Fear, Regroup tests and Morale checks, but cannot Go to Ground and cannot choose to fail a Morale check due to the Our Weapons Are Useless rule. If a unit has Gone to Ground and then gains the Fearless special rule, all the effects of Go to Ground are immediately cancelled." Emphasis mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 It works the same for all intents and purposes though. Much like the Chaos Daemon Daemon rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Oh wait, you're right. They use different tenses for the verb pass, so they are different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 While I don't value fear very highly, I DO however love the armor of misery. -2 to leadership is GOLDEN for things that aren't immune to morale, which opens up a FAR broader set of units. Popping up from a WWP and nuking a unit with shooting and then having it fail morale and run off the board is definitely possible. Things like broadsides dropping to Ld 6 or even Ld8 with a character is TASTY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 If I had to name the sarcasm font, I might name it Pret....pretre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 If I had to name the sarcasm font, I might name it Pret....pretre Great idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted October 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 You're being a pedant. For the purposes of this argument (units immune to fear), Zealot makes you effectively fearless. Especially since the language is exactly the same. "A unit containing one or more models with the Zealot special rule automatically passes Pinning, Fear and Regroup tests and Morale checks, but cannot Go to Ground and cannot choose to fail a Morale check due to the Our Weapons Are Useless rule. If a unit gains the Zealot special rule when it has Gone to Ground, all the effects of Go to Ground are immediately cancelled." "Units containing one or more models with the Fearless special rule automatically pass Pinning, Fear, Regroup tests and Morale checks, but cannot Go to Ground and cannot choose to fail a Morale check due to the Our Weapons Are Useless rule. If a unit has Gone to Ground and then gains the Fearless special rule, all the effects of Go to Ground are immediately cancelled." Emphasis mine. and yet...they arent immune because...again...not fearless, which is the POINT here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Wait, what? They are functionally immune to it because they automatically pass fear tests... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted October 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 yes but wounds can be allocated to them because they lack the actual FEARLESS rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Wounds for what? Are we talking about the phantasm grenade launcher or fear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Reading the rules for the court, it appears you still MUST have at least one of each type in the unit. So you need a Lamean I don't believe this is true. The text in particular is "A Court of the Archon consists of between one to twelve of the following models, chosen in any combination." (Emphasis mine.) I'm not sure how you would read that to indicate that you are required to take one of each type. He's such a negative Nancy about things. Well I suppose that's just to cancel out your Pollyanna nonsense, then isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Wait, what are you talking about? I thought we were talking about fear... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 I don't believe this is true. The text in particular is "A Court of the Archon consists of between one to twelve of the following models, chosen in any combination." (Emphasis mine.) I'm not sure how you would read that to indicate that you are required to take one of each type. Change the emphasis. It consists of one to twelve of the following models, chosen in any combination. To me, that reads, you take at least one and up to twelve of the the following models in any combination. I will certainly agree that it is vague. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted October 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 its not vague. You don't have to take one of each. I'm taking the Urghul because it gets lots of STR 5 attacks and BTW, gives your unit fear which is worth a few points to me. Im not taking a Lhamaean. No need. they are now MUCH better than they were before but ultimately I think grotesques are right for that job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 Hmmm, I'm going to concede the point. I agree that it appears that it doesn't require that anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 One thing I think is fascinating about the court as well is that an archon is NOT required to bring it, simply the archon means that they don't count as any FOC slot. So they can become the CHEAPEST HQ ever. For dual CAD shenanigans, they only cost 10 pts at the minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted October 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 It requires the Archon. For each archon, you may bring one Court of the Archon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 Nope, Court of the Archon is an HQ choice and the Retainer rule states: For each Archon included in a Detachment, the Detachment can include a Court of the Archon that does not take up a slot on the Force Organisation chart. Nothing says you can't take it without him, just that by taking an Archon the CotA doesn't take up a slot. It is the same wording as for Snikrot in the Ork dex. You can buy him all by his lonesome, but if you also get a unit of kommandos, he takes up no slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted October 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 Put a comma after "court of the archon" in that sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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