fluger Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 I have always liked the idea of a full company as my army. I also really like the Imperial Fists chapter tactics. Librarian: 65 10 Tactical Marines: 170 Heavy Bolter, Meltagun, Combi-Melta 10 Tactical Marines: 170 Heavy Bolter, Meltagun, Combi-Melta 10 Tactical Marines: 170 Heavy Bolter, Meltagun, Combi-Melta 10 Tactical Marines: 170 Heavy Bolter, Meltagun, Combi-Melta 10 Tactical Marines: 175 Plasma cannon, Meltagun, Combi-Melta 10 Tactical Marines: 175 Plasma cannon, Meltagun, Combi-Melta 10 Assault Squad: 185 Meltabombs, 2x Flamers 10 Devastators: 240 4 Missile Lanchers 4x Flakk Missiles 10 Devastators: 240 4 Missile Lanchers 4x Flakk Missiles 10 Devastators: 240 4 Missile Lanchers 4x Flakk Missiles 2000 It's nothing but infantry, which, could be perceived as boring, but it has pretty much all the tools necessary to deal with virtually any type of army. I like the flexibility of this army and how it can flex to deal with virtually any situation. I particularly like the 12 missiles with tank hunters! As to the Imperial Wardens, it'd be my own chapter that I'd mock up. It'd be a Imperial Fists successor chapter. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Should really have a power weapon or two in an all-comers list. Something ap 2 other than the force weapon and ranged weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 I like the idea, but the sad truth is that tacticals, ASM, and Devs do not at ALL give you the tools to deal with most armies, at least not on foot. Flakk Missiles are garbage- if two Heldrakes show up, your army is essentially toast. You've got no real way to stop a heavy melee hitter (a Knight, Juggerlord, etc) nor any ability to deal with a highly mobile foe (Serpents, Tau, whatever.) If you had enough points to bring Drop Pods and/or Rhinos, I think this could be more legit, but whatever the fluff may try to say the basic units of a Space Marine army don't have the loadouts necessary to deal with diverse threats. I coudl see this working at OFCC as a high 1/low 2, but certainly not against any kind of decently-competitive list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Because they have Tank Hunter, those Devs end up doing significantly more than you might think. I've run a Squad of them a couple of times, and was very pleased. Imperial Fists Devs are the only place I would consider running Flakk, tho. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Imperial Fists Devs are the only place I would consider running Flakk, tho. On marines, yeah, agree. I'd consider it on the dark reaper exarch too. I also occasionally run them on over-equipped scout squads... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 I realize they have Tank Hunter, but you're still paying 240pts for... not really all that much. Lacking Interceptor, most flyers are going to be able to come onto the board and do as they please, then Jink when you fire at them and fly off the board next turn. A Quad Gun would cost about as much as outfitting the whole squad with Flakk, but give you an additional weapon beyond whatever they were carrying with just as many shots, that are twin-linked and also get to fire before the enemy flyer does. Add in the fact that Missile Launchers are also resoundingly mediocre against ground targets (oh no please don't shoot my Riptide/AV13) and quite expensive for all that and I just don't really see any reason to bother with them. IF Devastators can be really good. A squad of ten with four Lascannons is actually quite strong in many lists- if can split up to get flexibility of targeting or stay together for ablative wounds and rerolling pens means it can hurt essentially anything in the game effectively, even AV14. But the Missile Launcher can't really make that claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Mooney Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 I think a double land raider list will give you problems. But I think the list would look super on a tAble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted August 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Add in the fact that Missile Launchers are also resoundingly mediocre against ground targets (oh no please don't shoot my Riptide/AV13) and quite expensive for all that and I just don't really see any reason to bother with them. IF Devastators can be really good. A squad of ten with four Lascannons is actually quite strong in many lists- if can split up to get flexibility of targeting or stay together for ablative wounds and rerolling pens means it can hurt essentially anything in the game effectively, even AV14. But the Missile Launcher can't really make that claim. You certainly have a point about the riptide, but each dev squad should be knocking 2 HPs off of a AV13 vehicle every volley. I do like the idea of the lascannon dev squad though. Saves me 20 pts, gets me some more needed long range AP2 and gives me a very credible threat against AV14. Now, what 20 do with those 20 pts? Maybe upgrade all the tactical squads heavy bolters to plasma cannons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Can you drop enough fluff to grab a FSR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Keep in mind that AV13 vehicles are either going to be Jinking (Necrons) or in cover (Predators) most of the time, so you'll get maybe one HP with the Missiles. Plasma Cannons are a reasonable option, although I don't feel like any of the heavy weapons mesh well with the units, sadly. Meltabombs on some sergeants might help shore up some weaknesses- it at least gives you a meaningful threat against Knights before they sweep you away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottshoemaker Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 I really like the list. Don't worry about if this or you'll struggle against that. The reality is is the current climate an allcomers list isn't feasible anymore. I I'd like to run 2k of orks against it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Abuse puppy pointed it out first, take one of the devastator squads and take away the flakk missiles and buy them a quad gun. They retain the tank hunters and functionally retain the flakk missiles. The quad gun is a 50pt upgrade to one of many buildings. The flakk missiles are 40pts. So, beyond the cost of the building, it's a 10pt upgrade and it solves your interceptor issue without really losing anything. Personally, I'd swap the missiles to multi-meltas for this squad. The dev squad would be 60pts cheaper. You'd use the tank hunting quad at long range, and the multi-meltas are for MCs that get too close. In general, I think 1 in 4 missile launchers should be swapped for a multi-melta on the other two squads. It helps them with tank shock and really makes opponents rethink getting so close. I do think tank hunters and multi-meltas is pretty awesome, even if overkill... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Can you drop enough fluff to grab a FSR? Don't bother. Used it recently, the new skyfire rules is a huge limitation to the FSR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted August 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Abuse puppy pointed it out first, take one of the devastator squads and take away the flakk missiles and buy them a quad gun. They retain the tank hunters and functionally retain the flakk missiles. The quad gun is a 50pt upgrade to one of many buildings. The flakk missiles are 40pts. So, beyond the cost of the building, it's a 10pt upgrade and it solves your interceptor issue without really losing anything. Personally, I'd swap the missiles to multi-meltas for this squad. The dev squad would be 60pts cheaper. You'd use the tank hunting quad at long range, and the multi-meltas are for MCs that get too close. In general, I think 1 in 4 missile launchers should be swapped for a multi-melta on the other two squads. It helps them with tank shock and really makes opponents rethink getting so close. I do think tank hunters and multi-meltas is pretty awesome, even if overkill... Anyone getting close is doing so through 12 different melta guns on the tacticals. I'm not too worried about tank shock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted August 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Librarian: 65 10 Tactical Marines: 175 Plasma cannon, Meltagun, Combi-Melta 10 Tactical Marines: 175 Plasma cannon, Meltagun, Combi-Melta 10 Tactical Marines: 175 Plasma cannon, Meltagun, Combi-Melta 10 Tactical Marines: 175 Plasma cannon, Meltagun, Combi-Melta 10 Tactical Marines: 175 Plasma cannon, Meltagun, Combi-Melta 10 Tactical Marines: 175 Plasma cannon, Meltagun, Combi-Melta 10 Assault Squad: 185 Meltabombs, 2x Flamers 10 Devastators: 240 4 Missile Lanchers 4x Flakk Missiles 10 Devastators: 240 4 Missile Lanchers 4x Flakk Missiles 10 Devastators: 200 4 Lascannons 2000Yes, heldrakes will take my lunch money, but that's about it, honestly. 100 pts to get a quadgun armed aegis sounds fine in theory. but I don't think it's necessary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 I'd personally keep those heavy bolters you reroll half your misses standing still, remember bolter drill. I'd invest the savings in Melta bomb Sargents. Plasma cannons can over heat at the worst times and can't snap fire ever... Maybe try and find the points for combat upgrade on the assault Sargent... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.MoreTanks Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 The biggest issue is any Malestorm objectives. You have one fast unit thats not too hard to kill but I have always loved this list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Anyone getting close is doing so through 12 different melta guns on the tacticals. I'm not too worried about tank shock. You have 6 for most of the game, the combi-meltas count for one turn only. Plus if you outflank with them, you don't have them guarding the backfield devastator squads. It is a personal preference thing, I just like 1/4 of the heavy weapons on devs to be a multi-melta. Anyway, I was talking about tank shock on the devastators - it can be pretty effective on them as they are typically near board edges, typically don't have vet upgrades, and typically lack melta bombs/fists. Obviously, not every army can realistically achieve a backfield tankshock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted August 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 I'd personally keep those heavy bolters you reroll half your misses standing still, remember bolter drill. I'd invest the savings in Melta bomb Sargents. Plasma cannons can over heat at the worst times and can't snap fire ever... Maybe try and find the points for combat upgrade on the assault Sargent... Sure, that's why I went with it initially. I could put a power maul on him? The biggest issue is any Malestorm objectives. You have one fast unit thats not too hard to kill but I have always loved this list. Yeah, lack of maneuverability is definitely the biggest issue for this list. You have 6 for most of the game, the combi-meltas count for one turn only. Plus if you outflank with them, you don't have them guarding the backfield devastator squads. It is a personal preference thing, I just like 1/4 of the heavy weapons on devs to be a multi-melta. Anyway, I was talking about tank shock on the devastators - it can be pretty effective on them as they are typically near board edges, typically don't have vet upgrades, and typically lack melta bombs/fists. Obviously, not every army can realistically achieve a backfield tankshock. I think you are confusing my two lists, this one is using the Imperial Fists CT which gives them re-rolls on 1s for all bolter weapons and tank hunters on the devastators. No one is outflanking unfortunately. Also, originally I had something more like THIS: Librarian: 65 10 Tactical Marines: 170 Heavy Bolter, Meltagun, Combi-Melta 10 Tactical Marines: 170 Heavy Bolter, Meltagun, Combi-Melta 10 Tactical Marines: 170 Heavy Bolter, Meltagun, Combi-Melta 10 Tactical Marines: 170 Heavy Bolter, Meltagun, Combi-Melta 10 Tactical Marines: 170 Heavy Bolter, Meltagun, Combi-Melta 10 Tactical Marines: 170 Heavy Bolter, Meltagun, Combi-Melta 10 Assault Squad: 185 Meltabombs, 2x Flamers 10 Assault Squad: 185 Meltabombs, 2x Flamers 10 Devastators: 200 4 Lascannons 10 Devastators: 200 4 Lascannons Aegis Defense Line: 100 Quad Gun 1955 pts Those 45 pts could go to a variety of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 I think you are confusing my two lists, this one is using the Imperial Fists CT which gives them re-rolls on 1s for all bolter weapons and tank hunters on the devastators. No one is outflanking unfortunately. Haha...yeah, I think I'm mixing the responses from the two lists. I was accounting for both chapter tactics simultaneously... Librarian: 65 10 Tactical Marines: 170 Heavy Bolter, Meltagun, Combi-Melta 10 Tactical Marines: 170 Heavy Bolter, Meltagun, Combi-Melta 10 Tactical Marines: 170 Heavy Bolter, Meltagun, Combi-Melta 10 Tactical Marines: 170 Heavy Bolter, Meltagun, Combi-Melta 10 Tactical Marines: 170 Heavy Bolter, Meltagun, Combi-Melta 10 Tactical Marines: 170 Heavy Bolter, Meltagun, Combi-Melta 10 Assault Squad: 185 Meltabombs, 2x Flamers 10 Assault Squad: 185 Meltabombs, 2x Flamers 10 Devastators: 200 4 Lascannons 10 Devastators: 200 4 Lascannons Aegis Defense Line: 100 Quad Gun 1955 pts Those 45 pts could go to a variety of things. This one looks pretty solid. I'd consider dropping the MBs on the assault squads and replacing with power fists. Cover and armor denial armies with more range would be the big threat, but no easy solutions there. With the 5pts left, add melta bombs to the libby and call it good. In alternative to the MB on the libby, could switch the aegis line for an imperial bunker (55+quad at 50, so 5pts more expensive), you'd gain a reasonably durable building to hide from AP3 barrage... As per the SA rules, the quad just needs to deploy within 6", so you don't need to worry about it being destroyed with the building. Even with lascanons, still a huge fan of 1 in 4 with MM... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted August 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 With the 5pts left, add melta bombs to the libby and call it good. In alternative to the MB on the libby, could switch the aegis line for an imperial bunker (55+quad at 50, so 5pts more expensive), you'd gain a reasonably durable building to hide from AP3 barrage... As per the SA rules, the quad just needs to deploy within 6", so you don't need to worry about it being destroyed with the building. Pax, that was a great idea. The Wall of Martyrs bunker is a great value! :D Here's the revised list! Librarian: 65 10 Tactical Marines: 175 Heavy Bolter, Meltagun, Combi-Melta, Meltabombs 10 Tactical Marines: 175 Heavy Bolter, Meltagun, Combi-Melta, Meltabombs 10 Tactical Marines: 175 Heavy Bolter, Meltagun, Combi-Melta, Meltabombs 10 Tactical Marines: 175 Heavy Bolter, Meltagun, Combi-Melta, Meltabombs 10 Tactical Marines: 175 Heavy Bolter, Meltagun, Combi-Melta, Meltabombs 10 Tactical Marines: 175 Heavy Bolter, Meltagun, Combi-Melta, Meltabombs 10 Assault Squad: 185 Meltabombs, 2x Flamers 10 Assault Squad: 185 Meltabombs, 2x Flamers 10 Devastators: 200 4 Lascannons 10 Devastators: 200 4 Lascannons Wall of Martys Bunker: 115 Additional Quad Gun, 1 Barricade Section I can put one whole unit of devastators inside the bunker since it has effectively 8 firepoints! As well, the other quad gun goes behind the barricade and is manned by one of the two combat squadded Devastator squads that are on the battlements/behind the bunker. That bunker is pretty freaking tough and will absolutely dominate the fire lanes to it. The list also gains considerable speed simply because I went with two assault squad units. I don't hold much hope for them to do much in assault, but they really assist with tactical objective grabbing. They also can potentially deep strike to go after deck chair units. The tactical squads also now all have meltabombs to go with the meltagun and combi meltas. The heavy bolters can combat squad to just be little pockets of anti-infantry and ob-sec scoring while the melta squads move up if needed. I actually REALLY like how this list looks and thanks for all the input everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 I approve of those changes looks really good! More boyz less toys equals profit for Marines. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Do keep in mind that flamer weapons will still come in through the fire points and hit the guys hiding inside, though. Other than that, though, Bunkers are quite tough and a good alternative to an Aegis Line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted August 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Do keep in mind that flamer weapons will still come in through the fire points and hit the guys hiding inside, though. Other than that, though, Bunkers are quite tough and a good alternative to an Aegis Line. Verily, though, the only flamers I'd be worried about are heldrakes tbh. I like that the guys inside can be effectively immune to wave serpents (most common load outs at least). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted August 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 I approve of those changes looks really good! More boyz less toys equals profit for Marines. Well, the number of models hasn't changed yet. Still 101 from 1st iteration to this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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