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AoS Rules Q: Wounds/Sv with Dmg 2+


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First up, I actually think AoS will be a great complex game once more of the new Scrolls come out but for the moment I am enjoying the fast paced and fun gameplay.

 

My question comes from the way you resolve Saves when it comes from a weapon that does multiple wounds. Lets take Ungrim as an example. His weapon has 2 Dmg and he has 4 attacks, the way I have resolved him in melee is the following Process of Operation:

 

Scenario A:
4 Attacks, Hitting on 3+ -> 3 Hits, Wounding on 3+ -> 2 Success, 2 Dmg -> 4 Wounds
My opponent than takes 4 Saves. Etc...

 

But I have concerned that perhaps it should be played the following:

 

Scenario B:

4 Attacks, Hitting on 3+ -> 3 Hits, Wounding on 3+ -> 2 Success, 2 Dmg
My opponent than takes 2 Saves and if he fails any than he takes the Dmg amount.

 

Scenario C:

4 Attacks, Hitting on 3+ -> 3 Hits, 2DMG Weapon must not roll 6 Wound Rolls on 3+ -> 4 Wounds
My opponent than takes 4 Saves.

 

Though I cannot find anywhere in the rules where it would say the game should be resolved like B and I feel that it jut feel that way cause thats how it was done in Fantasy for multiwounds.

In the Rulebook under Section 4:

 

 

"Once all of the attacks made by a unit have been carried out, each successful attack inflicts a number of wounds equal to the Damage characteristic of the weapon. Most weapons have a Damage characteristic of 1, but some can inflict 2 or more wounds, allowing them to cause grievous injuries to even the mightiest foe, or to cleave through more than one opponent with but a single blow! In order to make several attacks at once, all of the attacks must have the same To Hit, To Wound, Rend and Damage characteristics, and must be directed at the same enemy unit. If this is the case, make all of the hit rolls at the same time, then all of the wound rolls, and finally all of the save rolls; then add up the total number of wounds caused"


As you can see it feels to me that the order of operation is Hits Scored * Dmg = Wounds Rolls. 

What does everyone think?

 
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have the rules in front of me and the order is

1.hit rill

2.wound roll

3.save roll

 

mechanics for those 3 are all pretty straighforward

 

4.determine damage

each succesfull attack inflicts a number of wounds equal to the damage on the weapon profile.

To me a succesfull attack is an attack that hit, wounded, and target failed their save.  

 

So i have 4 attacks --> 3 hit --> 2 wound --> defender takes 2 saves and fails 1 --> my weapon damage is 2 so 2 wounds are inflicted

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have the rules in front of me and the order is

1.hit rill

2.wound roll

3.save roll

 

mechanics for those 3 are all pretty straighforward

 

4.determine damage

each succesfull attack inflicts a number of wounds equal to the damage on the weapon profile.

To me a succesfull attack is an attack that hit, wounded, and target failed their save.  

 

So i have 4 attacks --> 3 hit --> 2 wound --> defender takes 2 saves and fails 1 --> my weapon damage is 2 so 2 wounds are inflicted

yea that bottom line of order is why i tend to lean that way as well... plus its how 8th worked.  *shrugs* but unlike 8th where it was crystal clear, they left a bit to be desired in their skimmed version.  literally just need to add a few words to make it clear but oh [big bad swear word] that might make it 5 pages.  the horror!  sorry ill stop with the sarcasm now :)

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have the rules in front of me and the order is

1.hit rill

2.wound roll

3.save roll

 

mechanics for those 3 are all pretty straighforward

 

4.determine damage

each succesfull attack inflicts a number of wounds equal to the damage on the weapon profile.

To me a succesfull attack is an attack that hit, wounded, and target failed their save.  

 

So i have 4 attacks --> 3 hit --> 2 wound --> defender takes 2 saves and fails 1 --> my weapon damage is 2 so 2 wounds are inflicted

 

Right but I just literally spelled to you the rules from the RB and it says specifically each successful hit inflicts number of wounds equal to the damage of the weapon.

 

So in your scenario 

1. Hit

2a. Multiple Hits * Dmg

2b. Roll to Wound

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If wounds are multiplied after saves are failed, does that mean a those wounds have to go on the same model?

 

I.e. the guy in the original example with 4 attacks doing 2 damage. Lets say he succeeds on all four hits... The opponent only makes 4 saves, so how could he lose 8 guys if he only gets 4 saves?

 

Not arguing of course, just trying to make sense of it.

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It does in the determine daamage step. why would you need a determine damage step if you did it already when you rolled for wounds.

 

Not to burst your bubble its not actually not so clear:

 

 

 

After all of the attacks made by a unit have been carried out, the player commanding the target unit allocates any wounds that are inflicted to models from the unit as they see fit (the models do not have to be within range or visible to an attacking unit). When inflicting damage, if you allocate a wound to a model, you must keep on allocating wounds to that model until either it is slain, or no more wounds remain to be allocated.

 

So I do not see much in here that clarifies any of my previous inquiry.

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Not to be contrarian but can you find the passage in the Rules were it says that. I would love it. Right but I just literally spelled to you the rules from the RB and it says specifically each successful hit inflicts number of wounds equal to the damage of the weapon.

See you put the word successful "HIT" which it doesnt say,causing the confusion, as "to hit" is a phase already done in step 1. 

 

4. Determining Damage.  it says "All successful ATTACKS inflict a number of wounds equal to the damage characteristic of the weapon". This is listed after steps 1-3 which describe hit rolls, wound rolls, and rend. A successful attack is an attack that was not saved during step 3, rolling for saves. 

 

The problem is the English language being big and unwieldy.

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See you put the word successful "HIT" which it doesnt say,causing the confusion, as "to hit" is a phase already done in step 1. 

 

4. Determining Damage.  it says "All successful ATTACKS inflict a number of wounds equal to the damage characteristic of the weapon". This is listed after steps 1-3 which describe hit rolls, wound rolls, and rend. A successful attack is an attack that was not saved during step 3, rolling for saves. 

 

The problem is the English language being big and unwieldy.

 

Yeah, I see the step by step logic but Step 4 seems contradictory but I can see that as a good Rules backer

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The android AOS app version has unambiguous text for making single attacks.

 

"The following sequence is used to make attacks one at a time:"

"1. Hit Roll: Roll a dice..."

"2. Wound Roll: Roll a dice..."

"3. Save Roll: The opposing player rolls a dice..."

"4. Determine Damage: Once all of the attacks made by a unit have been carried out, each successful attack deals a number of wounds equal to the Damage characteristic for the weapon."

 

Single attacks always have just 1 dice rolled for wound rolls. Though the brief paragraph about batching attacks may be ambiguous, it's absurd to think it would be different.

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