InfestedKerrigan Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 So you are paying points to take Battlefield Debris? Does this Debris take up a FOC slot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 The Aegis Defense Line is Battlefield Debris (Defense Line), also. This is nothing new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Yup. Just a fortification like any other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted October 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 There's very little reason to keep banning them at this point, but for some reason tournaments do it anyways. It actually isn't- like the Aquila Strongpoint and Fortress of Redemption, it is a single fortification consisting of multiple linked parts. Note that its Options section allows you to add sections, as opposed to the fortification network wordings which say that you can "take 1-X of this or that fortification." I agree there is no reason to ban it. It is like the networks, not the aquila and fort of red which are forts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 How is it different from, say, the Fortress of Redemption? Neither of them are labeled as fortification networks. Both of them consist of multiple parts (buildings in the FoR's case and battlefield debris in the Tidewall's case.) Both of them have the option to add additional pieces of battlefield debris (gun emplacements, etc.) Both of them are required to be placed in contiguous arrangements that cannot change (as opposed to networks, which are not required to do so.) Neither of them use the "1-X" wording that is common to all networks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted October 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 How is it different from, say, the Fortress of Redemption? Neither of them are labeled as fortification networks. Both of them consist of multiple parts (buildings in the FoR's case and battlefield debris in the Tidewall's case.) Both of them have the option to add additional pieces of battlefield debris (gun emplacements, etc.) Both of them are required to be placed in contiguous arrangements that cannot change (as opposed to networks, which are not required to do so.) Neither of them use the "1-X" wording that is common to all networks. I'll wait to see how it is presented in codex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 The Aegis Defense Line is Battlefield Debris (Defense Line), also. This is nothing new. Clearly something I need to become more familiar with in my book. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 I'll wait to see how it is presented in codex. My understanding was that the Tidewall wasn't in the codex- it had rules in its own box, and if GW follows their usual pattern they will eventually be available as a PDF on their site, but it's not in the actual codex itself. I could be wrong there, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted October 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 My understanding was that the Tidewall wasn't in the codex- it had rules in its own box, and if GW follows their usual pattern they will eventually be available as a PDF on their site, but it's not in the actual codex itself. I could be wrong there, though. Okay, same answer but wherever the rules land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 This awesome bundle contains a huge collection of Tau Empire power! You’ll receive a Pathfinder Team, a Strike Team. two Breacher Teams - forty warriors in total, with seven drones and two DS8 support turrets - two Tidewall Gunrigs, two Tidewall Shieldlines and a Tidewall Droneports! This imposing mobile defence line comes complete with exclusive rules*, and is limited to a mere 100! $465 http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Tidewall-Counterstrike-Cadre 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 Well, it has Pathfinders in it so it's pretty much guaranteed to be awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 $465 http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Tidewall-Counterstrike-Cadre For those who havent caught on, this allows you to field all the Tidewall Formations, if you bought the Rampart. Its also currently the only way to get the missing pieces the Rampart doesnt come with. Clever GW. Clever. The Tidewall Rampart doesnt come with enough to field them. So lame! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted November 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 Aannnnd chances are I'll have the rules on Monday. Wonder if they're good... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 So....it's Monday. Where's the rules, Priesty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted November 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 So....it's Monday. Where's the rules, Priesty? It is early yet. Don't be greedy. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 I'm not greedy, I work graves at an International Call Center, It's Tuesday in parts of my brain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentP Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 So, having read through the new supplement a couple times now, I don't think I'm overly impressed. I mean, it's a fine addition to the Tau, but nothing game changing. I don't think it's going to improve Tau's overall competitiveness. Their answer to everything remains "shoot and shoot again." They continue to lack any psychic defense, any close combat counter, and any real answer to deathstars. I like how the breacher teams revive the potential for a fish of fury tactic, but the devilfish remains criminally over-costed for a transport, so that's not a terribly realistic option. I'm disappointed that the Hunter decurion-style build doesn't include any options for the new fortifications, that would have been neat, and allowed a more viable gun line. The desire for MSU to maximize the 3 units shooting at one thing boost, is contrasted by the desire for bigger non MSU units to get the +1 BS for units of 3 or more, creating an internal tension in the codex that I suspect is a product of rushed design.Anyway, while I see it as a nice book, it certainly is not displacing Eldar, SM/DA Battle Companies, Thunderdome, Centstar, or War Convocation in my mind as the leaders of the pack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Does it give any options for Free Transports (Battle Company-esque)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentP Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 So, having read through the new supplement a couple times now, I don't think I'm overly impressed. I mean, it's a fine addition to the Tau, but nothing game changing. I don't think it's going to improve Tau's overall competitiveness. Their answer to everything remains "shoot and shoot again." They continue to lack any psychic defense, any close combat counter, and any real answer to deathstars. I think you're selling it a bit short- the Hunter Contingent's bonuses are actually pretty solid and includes several formations that are at the very least solid and possibly quite strong (Firebase, Optimized Stealth, Retaliation.) Depending on how tournaments rule the Coordinated Fire rule to work exactly it has the potential to be an excellent solution to deathstars and the Stormsurge can solve two of their other potential problem units (Wraithknights, Centurions) pretty effectively. Tau obviously have no psychic defense or meaningful melee prowess, but that's what allies are for- and Tau have access to several very good ally armies. Is it going to dethrone the current top lists? Maybe not, but to be quite frank we haven't seen many lists "dethroned" for a while now; rather, mostly what's happening is we're seeing more and more proliferation of the types of lists that show at the top tables, which is a good thing. And Tau armies have been ranking reasonably (if not exceptionally) well even with their old book- I think the new one will give them a shot in the arm. I would've really liked to see Devilfish come down in price a lot as well, but c'est la vie. It got enough good stuff the first time around that I can't complain too hard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Well I dont give a crap if they look good on paper or not. I'm still gonna' play 'em! Because: Tau Empire. YAYA! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 Oh, don't get me wrong, I'll still run Devilfish because I <3 Tau skimmers. Wish the Hunter Contingent gave you better options for including Skyrays, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 HOVER TANKS FOR THE WIN!!! http://www.robotechresearch.com/rpg/mecha/sc/vht_1_hovertank/vht_1_hovertank.htm I feel like the new codex missed an opportunity for these Devilfish's to convert to their battloid mode. Do you think anyone would complain if I brought one of these to the game and walked it around in Battloid mode? I'd prbably want to load the sound effects and theme music on my phone and play it throughout the game as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterman Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 So, having read through the new supplement a couple times now, I don't think I'm overly impressed. I mean, it's a fine addition to the Tau, but nothing game changing. I don't think it's going to improve Tau's overall competitiveness. Their answer to everything remains "shoot and shoot again." They continue to lack any psychic defense, any close combat counter, and any real answer to deathstars. I like how the breacher teams revive the potential for a fish of fury tactic, but the devilfish remains criminally over-costed for a transport, so that's not a terribly realistic option. I'm disappointed that the Hunter decurion-style build doesn't include any options for the new fortifications, that would have been neat, and allowed a more viable gun line. The desire for MSU to maximize the 3 units shooting at one thing boost, is contrasted by the desire for bigger non MSU units to get the +1 BS for units of 3 or more, creating an internal tension in the codex that I suspect is a product of rushed design. Anyway, while I see it as a nice book, it certainly is not displacing Eldar, SM/DA Battle Companies, Thunderdome, Centstar, or War Convocation in my mind as the leaders of the pack. Interesting, I feel like this book was a decent boost despite not touching a lot of units. Psychic defense? Unless you take a culexus you don't really have psychic defense that matters -- which is still an option for Tau if you really want it. This seems like a non-issue to me (or at least the same issue every other army struggles with due to how blessings are handled) and fits their background (of all the races, Tau should be the least capable of dealing with psychers). Close combat counter? Shoot and shoot again works pretty well against meat and potato CC units in 6/7ed. So well that it caused the influx of deathstars we see now for cc to even function. Speaking of.. No real answer to deathstars? The new book gives them even more umph against cover save based deathstars (buh bye Ravenwing, its like 6ed all over again). Seems possible to even handle invis via careful use of the combine fire perk, but that is theory hammer on my part. Ultimately those will probably still be an issue, but not necessarily a bad thing. Overall that combine fire thing is their boost against deathstars and regardless of how it ends up being ruled still a big boost. What they still have an issue with, and what you didn't mention surprisingly, is scoring objectives, especially the during game maelstrom kind of scoring. Being able to get the most out of the new abilities ends up limiting the armies scoring, which is already anemic. That would be the main reason why I'd hesitate to take Tau to an ITC event whether it was the old book or the new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentP Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 Yes I agree with you. Scoring is a problem, no objective secured, and the overpriced devilfish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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