Brother Solomon Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 As I am new to Warhammer 40k I am open to all the criticisms and help I can acquire. This is a 500 point list that I've put some thought into. I have no real plan for this list which is why I need some input. My assumption was that this list is a well-balanced and well-rounded group. Librarian 75pts (Dark Vengeance model) Force Sword Bolt Pistol Tactical Squad 190pts (Dark Vengeance squad) Veteran Sergeant with plasma pistol and chainsword Space marine with plasma cannon Space marine with plasma gun Space marine with bolter x7 Ravenwing Land Speeder 70pts Assault cannon Heavy bolter Dreadnought 165pts Upgraded built-in storm bolter with built-in heavy flamer (15pts) Assault cannon Extra armor So what are your thoughts? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier319 Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 your marines really need a transport. A rhino of some kind. That way you can combat squad them, leave the plasma cannon behind, and put the libby with the other squad in the rhino. Marines without a transport are extremely sad in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 I play DA but I have no experience with small lists like that. What's it for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier319 Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 A local Escalation League, is my understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 Plasma Pistols are cool, but they're overpriced. Much better to trim that off and get a Bolt Pistol from someone to replace it (or take an extra Bolter, trim down the forward top of the Bolter and the "inside" of the Plasma Pistol to fit, and glue them together as a Combi-Plasmagun). If you ditch the Plasma Pistol, Veteran Sergeant upgrade, and Extra Armour on the Dread, that's enough for a Rhino, which, as Xavier319 pointed out, would really help. The Heavy Bolter/Assault Cannon mix is the classic RavenWing Speeder, but I'm not a huge fan of it. I tend to run mine either Heavy Bolter/Typhoon Launcher (stays back, at least avoiding small arms fire), or Multi-Meltas(Suicide Tank Hunters), possibly with a Heavy Flamer or two thrown in for a bit more flexibility if I'm running a Squadron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalmer Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Hello there, My two cents echoes WestRider and others: Number one priority: get those troops in a transport. Adjust your army list accordingly to give them a box. Can always combat squad them, dump one squad somewhere and ride on with the other. If the Libby foot slogs it, well then he'll just have to pick his path carefully, won't he? Number two priority: I'd make the speeder a typhoon as well. A highly-mobile, 48" reach krak missile system to at least give your 500 point force some anti-armor. Stay safe and go get 'em! don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 As I am new to Warhammer 40k I am open to all the criticisms and help I can acquire. This is a 500 point list that I've put some thought into. I have no real plan for this list which is why I need some input. My assumption was that this list is a well-balanced and well-rounded group. Librarian 75pts (Dark Vengeance model) Force Sword Bolt Pistol Tactical Squad 190pts (Dark Vengeance squad) Veteran Sergeant with plasma pistol and chainsword Space marine with plasma cannon Space marine with plasma gun Space marine with bolter x7 Ravenwing Land Speeder 70pts Assault cannon Heavy bolter Dreadnought 165pts Upgraded built-in storm bolter with built-in heavy flamer (15pts) Assault cannon Extra armor So what are your thoughts? Your points don't make sense. Do you have current rules? Librarian has Force weapon and bolt pistol stock for a DA libby at 65pts. 10-man tactical squad is 140pts base, Plasma pistol 15pts, plasma gun 15pts, plasma cannon 15pts, for a total of 185pts. Land Speeder is correct at 70pts. Dreadnought is 100pts base. Assault cannon is 10pts. Extra armor is 10pts. Heavy Flamer is 10pts. Total is 130pts. I have your list at a total of 450pts. EDIT: Assault cannon is +10pts, not +5pts for the Dreadnought. Math is fixed above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier319 Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 are your points from the DA codex pax, or the C:SM codex? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 They're the same for most of them. That Speeder would only be 65 in the SM Dex, tho. And specifically, I do know that DA Librarians are 65 Points base off the top of my head, since I've written a bunch of lists with them in recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 are your points from the DA codex pax, or the C:SM codex? Mine are the (current) DA codex - that is what he's using, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 So what are your thoughts? As for list comments (barring the points comment above): If you want it as is, I'd swap the Tactical sergeant's plasma pistol for the close combat weapon instead of the pistol. This will give you two pistols, which in this edition can both be fired in the same shooting phase. There's no loss of attacks, as they still count as two melee weapons (as far as I understand). As mentioned, your list may face issues to the lack of range and the low strength of the two assault cannons. At 500pts, it is common to play on a smaller table (four foot square), so you might not see any issues with the mid-range assault cannons. For the point level, I'd look into a Twin-linked Autocannon for the dreadnought, while retaining your power fist for the secondary weapon. You lose rending, but you gain double range, 1 more strength and not really that much shooting loss (2 shots twin linked vs 4 unlinked shots). Auto-cannon is 5pts cheaper. As for changes to the list, I'd look into a second land speeder. More than anything in your army, those will get singled out due to their soft nature (av10 on all sides). I'd take two if you intend to take any (2 squadrons of 1). As for weapons, at this point level any weapons will work, though I'd lean towards a heavy flamer and a multi-melta on each speeder. This will give you a cover denial option (which your has only on the dread) and a solution to high AV enemies (at present, AV14 can only be dealt with in melee via the dreadnought). I also suggest dropping the Extra Armor on the Dreadnought. The extra armor is useful, yes, but at this point level, it just won't add enough to justify itself. Also, if you have the points, always give HQ characters melta bombs if they lack solutions for vehicles with their normal weapons. It's just very helpful to have. For now, I'd go with: Dark Angels Combined Arms Detachment HQ Librarian (Force Sword, Bolt Pistol, Melta Bomb) 70pts Elite Dreadnought (Autocannon, Power fist with built in heavy flamer) 115pts Troops Tactical Squad (5, Plasma Gun, Sergeant with Bolt and Plasma Pistols) 100pts Troops Tactical Squad (5, Plasma Cannon, Sergeant with Bolter) 85pts Fast Attack Land Speeder Squadron (1, Heavy flamer, Multi-Melta) 65pts Fast Attack Land Speeder Squadron (1, Heavy flamer, Multi-Melta) 65pts Total 500pts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier319 Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Pax gives good advice. Obey the Pax (within reason). This is still the guy who takes ten man sternguard all with combi-plasma. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 This is still the guy who takes ten man sternguard all with combi-plasma. ;) Haven't run those since 5th. They worked really well in that edition, which was when flyers didn't exist and ap2 meant it would deny FNP. This was also the time where BA and GK were dominating the scene with FNP deathstars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Solomon Posted September 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Here is where I pulled the points from http://www.thedarkfortress.co.uk/tech_reports/dark-vengeance-list.htm#.VgWNDctViko and now that I look back at it, the points were based off of 6th edition. Sorry for the late response and thank you for all the input. I have the 7th edition codex which is what was used to make the list in conjunction with the website since I don't have a copy of The Rules.I was under the assumption (based off the website again) that the force sword on the librarian cost another 10pts. Which is also the reason why I don't know how much special weapons and other weapons for that matter cost unless they are listed in my codex. Regardless, I will definitely run a rhino! Also, if I run the speeder as a Typhoon do, I need to buy a kit to give it the missile pods? I made a 500 point list since I figured that would be a good start to learn and build up. Pax thank you for the corrections and advice on the army. Maybe I will do one speeder typhoon and the other with the multi melta and flamer. Next question, do I need to buy all the bits to convert my models to the equipment given in the lists or is it implied by my list? Essentially, do they need to have the aesthetic weapon to actually be able to use it? Example: Sergeant with 2 pistols. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Regardless, I will definitely run a rhino! Also, if I run the speeder as a Typhoon do, I need to buy a kit to give it the missile pods? I made a 500 point list since I figured that would be a good start to learn and build up. Pax thank you for the corrections and advice on the army. Maybe I will do one speeder typhoon and the other with the multi melta and flamer. Next question, do I need to buy all the bits to convert my models to the equipment given in the lists or is it implied by my list? Essentially, do they need to have the aesthetic weapon to actually be able to use it? Example: Sergeant with 2 pistols. Yes and no. For a new player, it's very common and accepted to have a model that is pretending to be another model. We call this a proxy. Most events (and players) prefer WYSIWYG models, or What You See Is What You Get. At the 500pt level, this may seem silly, but at higher point games, the WYSIWYG rule is very reasonable. As for additional kits/conversions, the model should look like it has the weapons it has, but they don't need to be exacts. A bolt pistol should look like a bolt pistol, but it doesn't need to be a bolt pistol model. Any sufficiently oversized bullet-based pistol, or holstered pistol, would work for WYSIWYG. Similarly, a Typhoon could be any missile system mounted to the speeder. Main point is the Land Speeder with missiles should look like a land speeder with missiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Solomon Posted September 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Okay, that works perfect for me since I like to model and paint them. I'll work on making them WYSIWYG. What is the point range for the Escalation games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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