Simple Army Composition....

[Guest]

One thing to keep in mind about going this route is that players can really take advantage of the "Reduce but don't kill the unit" strategy,which I tend to do a lot of against summoning armies.

That's actually addressed by the

excess models are consider slain on arrival, which may cause battleshock tests or trigger abilities, ect

 

So, basically, you can still attempt to summon, so long as you have the models required for the entire unit, but if your wound count is 78 and you summon 10 horrors, then 8 die when they arrive because only 2 models fit the 80 wound cap. You still end up with 2 horrors (which could include command models). Those 2 will probably still die to battleshock...

 

You are correct, that the cap on warscrolls could be used like this, but it would likely be difficult. Just because both players have such similar warscroll counts. I suppose if it becomes a huge issue, could add some sort of "suicide pact" rule, but I'd rather avoid that if possible.

 

I think the main way it weakens summoning armies is that it prevents them from summoning "backup" wizards and hinders the majority of the benefit of chain summoning. This makes all my wizards much more vulnerable to being killed off in a single turn. It would certainly reward players which devise a cunning anti-wizard army, as you'd "only" need to slay 3 wizard to completely stop summoning for most summoning armies.

 

I will note, that it isn't just unit regeneration. Yeah, I can't generate more units than 10, but I can use the summoning to make an all-comer's list more specialized during play.

[Malakithe]

Seraphon summoning is very specific. The unit has a specific amount. Warriors for example summon at 10 but I roll 10+ then it goes to 20

[Guest]

Seraphon summoning is very specific. The unit has a specific amount. Warriors for example summon at 10 but I roll 10+ then it goes to 20

Not just Seraphon, pretty much every spell my chaos has that summons, has a very specific thing that is summoned. This guy, the Great Bray Shaman, and a few others are the exception to an otherwise crystal clear summoning system.

[Malakithe]

Hmm...wonder if the great Google can find the answer lol

[Guest]

Hmm...wonder if the great Google can find the answer lol

"The Great Google" would be an excellent Slaan name.

[Malakithe]

Lol true...might go with that since I'm no good with ancient Aztec names

[Malakithe]

Question about scenery. The wife is doing wood elf/tree people and some of their abilities play off the wyldwood. Does the scenery warscrolls take up the 8-10 in the army comp or is scenery all separate?

[Threejacks]

Question about scenery. The wife is doing wood elf/tree people and some of their abilities play off the wyldwood. Does the scenery warscrolls take up the 8-10 in the army comp or is scenery all separate?

They shouldn't..I don't think they do in any of the fan comps.

[Malakithe]

Hmm ok...nothat sure how scenery works but it seems the wyldwoods are outside of the normal rules...

[Threejacks]

Hmm ok...nothat sure how scenery works but it seems the wyldwoods are outside of the normal rules...

They are certainly more specific to the Sylvan faction but keep in mind that Stormcast have the Realm gate they use in a formation and Khorne have Dreadhold pieces they can use as well:)

 

I just recently picked up the Wildwood kit,at some point I would like to get that Sylvanus formation box.

[Threejacks]

With were we are heading with the simple wound comp I want to point out a comp system that was pretty much the first one to be released right after the game came out last Summer.Apparently this comp was GW sanctioned as a "more competitive" way to play AoS.The scenarios included are mainly just for straight up balanced play,but for casual play I would prefer to use published Battleplans.

 

It also does some rules tweaking,like to shooting..removes the random chance to steal turn initiative and places the same summoning restriction I was proposing in my house rule thread.Other than that its just a wound count with slot restrictions and seems to be very well put together:)

 

Linkage-

http://www.fantasiaspel.se/Fantasia/Age-of-Sigmar-Errata-and-Scenarios.pdf

 

With this comp we would probably be using a wound cap of 100 again as it seems to fit right into that.75 may work too if too many games are timing out.

[Malakithe]

That's not bad. We could still use the restrictions we talked about or that, doesn't matter too much I think.

 

That's cool they released that. It's not bad. There are some familiar things from 40k in there. The 'look out sir' in particular pretty much solves the Slann durability issue too

[Guest]

Been debating the scenery one, as it does seem that it could be rather excessive, rather easily.

 

Without any testing, my suggestion would be limit player scenery to the BRB's random scenery allotment, with players being allowed to place purchased terrain in place of terrain features. players would alternate terrain placement, which could include placing one of their purchased terrain pieces instead of a random one from the BRB. A player cannot place a terrain piece purchased by the opponent, unless they share it willingly (so I can't place your skull keep in my deployment zone to deny you access, unless you give me permission).

 

In example, the BRB allocates terrain per 2'x2' section via a 2d6 roll which determines the number of terrain features allowed. This does mean that a player could potentially be unable to place any purchased terrain, as the table rolled 0 terrain features for all sections of the table. This also means that scenery battalions which count as more than one terrain piece, must have access to a location with that many free terrain features in order to be placed.

 

As for summoned terrain, it is placed in addition to the above, does not replace existing terrain features, and cannot be placed on top of other terrain features. Terrain features do not count towards the composition warscoll limitations, nor do they require the faction as the rest of the army. The only limit to summoned terrain ingame, is placement of the summoned terrain.

[Guest]

8-10 War Scrolls Army

80 wound army cap

1-3 Heroes

0-3 Wizards

0-3 Monsters

0-1 Named Warscrolls (aka, special characters)

All models must be of the same faction (Order/Chaos/Death/Destruction).

During the game, summoned/reinforcement units may not be gained if they exceed the above limits (excess models are consider slain on arrival, which may cause battleshock tests or trigger abilities, ect.).

An added note regarding the Garden of Mor scenery Warscroll and in general summoning.

 

Spirit Hosts have the Death Faction. This means that the spell granted by the Garden of Mor will summon models that maybe in excess of the starting limit if the army's faction differs from the summoned model's faction. This goes for other summoning as well. Chaos can only summon chaos, order can only summon order, and so forth.

 

If said spell is attempted anyway, the summoned unit is considered slain immediately upon arrival. This will count towards the opponent's slain model count, and may trigger abilities which trigger on a slain friendly/enemy unit. The spell is still considered successfully cast.

[Threejacks]

The "Wardens of the Realmgate" Stormcast Battalion formation states to set up the Realmgate(that it has in it) after setting up the Battalions Lord Castellant.With the formation bonuses it is always set up were the Castellant is..well it would be pretty dim to set it up elsewere,lol.

[Guest]

The "Wardens of the Realmgate" Stormcast Battalion formation states to set up the Realmgate(that it has in it) after setting up the Battalions Lord Castellant.With the formation bonuses it is always set up were the Castellant is..well it would be pretty dim to set it up elsewere,lol.

You'd need to deploy it in a location where a "free" terrain feature was. The roll to get zero terrain features in a 2'x2' section is 2-3 on 2d6. Most deploy zones include at least 2 sections, so its more that the dice gods hate you if you are unable to place it.

[Malakithe]

The sylvaneth battalion includes 2 woods that are set up after all other terrain but before deployment. So at a minimum that's 2 and if she ops to used the named tree guy his ability is to just summon up more damn trees lol terrain is confusing for me

[Guest]

The sylvaneth battalion includes 2 woods that are set up after all other terrain but before deployment. So at a minimum that's 2 and if she ops to used the named tree guy his ability is to just summon up more damn trees lol terrain is confusing for me

If the battalion says they are placed after (or in addition to) the normal terrain, then they don't count towards the terrain feature limit.

 

The one bit I've been considering is a house rule that allows wizards to unsummoned previously summoned units. Something to the extent of:

 

 

Unsummon

Spell is known to all wizards automatically. Select a warscroll within 6" of your wizard. Warscrolls may be targeted only if they were summoned into play in the current turn, or in the opponent's last turn. The casting value is equal to the casting value of the spell that summoned the Warscroll+4. Unsummoned units are removed from play, but do not count as slain models/units. Warscrolls summoned with a spell that doesn't use a casting value and were summoned in current or opponent's last turn may still be targeted, but have a casting value 14. Abilities which cast spells without a casting roll cannot use this spell.

Idea is that the spell can remove recently summoned units, but it's costly and is likely only practical if the opponent summons a unit very close to your wizards. You have to get real close, and even the easiest summons require additional effort unsummon. Basically affords players a bonus unbinding attempt for summoned units.

 

So, in example, a Lord of change requires a 9 to summon. You'd need a 13 to unsummon it. You'd also need to be very close to the target (within 6"), which means that you'd be well in range of an unbinding attempt, plus the added danger of being in easy charge range should the spell fail to unsummon.

 

You could remove those trees if you did so shortly after they were summoned, but it would require a potent 14 casting roll.

[Malakithe]

Ok so off topic but not quite...what is the final 'official' comp we are using? Time to build some lists for me and the wife

[Guest]

Unless you have objections, I think testing this one should work for the time being:

8-10 War Scrolls Army
80 wound army cap
1-3 Heroes

0-3 Wizards
0-3 Monsters

0-1 Named Warscrolls (aka, special characters)

Models must be of the same faction (Order/Chaos/Death/Destruction).

During the game, summoned/reinforcement units may not be gained if they exceed the above limits (excess models are consider slain on arrival, which may cause battleshock tests or trigger abilities, ect.).

 

Warscroll Terrain is exempt from the above requirements, and are placed normally as per random terrain (swapping warscrolls for terrain features in a 2'x2' section as rolled)

I can tweak it if you think it needs something, but the idea is a balanced, relatively short game without a lot of complicated explaining.

[Threejacks]

You'd need to deploy it in a location where a "free" terrain feature was. The roll to get zero terrain features in a 2'x2' section is 2-3 on 2d6. Most deploy zones include at least 2 sections, so its more that the dice gods hate you if you are unable to place it.

As far as I know theres no were it says I wouldn't be able to use it if there was already a full allotment of terrain in a square.Actually many TOs for AoS are saying that the more terrain on board the better.

 

The terrain piece being part of the formation should never cause a player to not be able to use it,especially if they had to bring it to run the formation.Think of the terrain piece as another unit they place when dropping units at start up.

 

At minimum players using terrain in their armies should be able to remove an existing piece of terrain that was placed or add to a square that didn't have one in the first place.

 

Overall the terrain warscrolls have a very mild impact on the game with their abilities,I have used all 5 of the ones I have built several times and none are highly effective.Great to have on the board and sometimes the effects have been a boon while at other times they can be a pain on your own army.

 

For the Dreadhold,they have several battleplans that require certain sections of the keep to be setup at start,those would count toward the allotment in those board sections just like scenarios that require realmgates and things like that.

 

I would say that if someone wanted to field their Chaos force along with sections of the Dreadhold,without using a Battalion formation then they could field the first piece not counting as an army warscroll.The other pieces would count as a warscroll in their army though.From what I can see of the Chaos Dreadhold battletomb,its mainly used in multiple pieces with a specific battleplan of which there are a few in the book,and they look very fun to play out:)

 

Basically if someone brings several terrain warscrolls and pieces and wants to have the benefit of placing one of them then they should be able to do so with one of them.The other pieces should be used in the game but will enter the placement rotation with both players setting them out in turn.The Dreadhold would be an exception as it needs to be placed as a whole...how we count if the warscrolls are in their army or not may need some testing..of course it would be a huge boon if the occupier is playing as the defender.

[Malakithe]

Ok sounds good. What about that supplement you linked?

[Guest]

As far as I know theres no were it says I wouldn't be able to use it if there was already a full allotment of terrain in a square.Actually many TOs for AoS are saying that the more terrain on board the better.

 

The terrain piece being part of the formation should never cause a player to not be able to use it,especially if they had to bring it to run the formation.Think of the terrain piece as another unit they place when dropping units at start up.

 

At minimum players using terrain in their armies should be able to remove an existing piece of terrain that was placed or add to a square that didn't have one in the first place.

 

Overall the terrain warscrolls have a very mild impact on the game with their abilities,I have used all 5 of the ones I have built several times and none are highly effective.Great to have on the board and sometimes the effects have been a boon while at other times they can be a pain on your own army.

 

For the Dreadhold,they have several battleplans that require certain sections of the keep to be setup at start,those would count toward the allotment in those board sections just like scenarios that require realmgates and things like that.

 

I would say that if someone wanted to field their Chaos force along with sections of the Dreadhold,without using a Battalion formation then they could field the first piece not counting as an army warscroll.The other pieces would count as a warscroll in their army though.From what I can see of the Chaos Dreadhold battletomb,its mainly used in multiple pieces with a specific battleplan of which there are a few in the book,and they look very fun to play out:)

I suppose I'm commenting on a set of rules I haven't seen. If it deploys the terrain in addition to the existing terrain, then I see no issue.

 

The Dreadhold stuff, each Battalion has specific rules on how many terrain features they count as.

[Guest]

Ok sounds good. What about that supplement you linked?

Not I, that was RCNjack. We could use that instead, but I'm not sure if he meant to use both at the same time.

[Malakithe]

Right I wasn't sure about that. Of course we can always pick and choose