Xavier319 Posted December 25, 2015 Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 Alright, so I have a bunch of marines sitting around that aren't Iron hands. This is an issue. They're getting used, and I've always loved the Raptors. Alright, so this is a split 1850/2000 point list. I'm looking for something competitive that gives me strategic options, and deployment shenanigans. Fluff is that they are an extended infiltration team that doesn't have heavy equipment at their disposal, or anything that can't move quickly (The Cents are lashed to the tops of the rhinos after the pilots get out if they need to move cross country quickly, one per rhino). So let me know what you think of the list, please. Both fluff and it's ability to compete at both a casual and tournament level. The 2k version adds in 5 more skyhammer assault marines, for more first (or second) turn assaulty goodness, and five more devestator marines to either split off and pin with boltguns, or split up the four multi-meltas for more tactical options. I wanted the addition to be something that would not significantly change my over-all tactics, so i could easily transition between 1850 and 2k without a significant change in how the army plays. Tactics are as follows... Issodon can pick three units and himself to give infiltrate to. Generally it'll be whatever suits me best. Tac squads, the Grav cents, assaulties, whatever. Flexibility. Issodon himself doenst have a 'place' so to speak, unless I need to make the cents more resilient to AP 2 shooting with his shrouded USR. This I feel is a strength, as there is no clear spot for him in the list, and he can shore things up wherever he is needed. The captain goes with the demi-company assault squatd I can do nearly null deployment. outflank, deep strike turn one or turn two. I have alpha strike, and I can play to the objectives. The only thing I really lack is flier defense, and I figure I can use divination and the tactical doctrine with my grav cannons and rending boltguns to take down fliers pretty well. Or just ignore them and score maelstrom points. I was inspired by Jer's Raven Guard list using the talon strike force, and this is my own take, hopefully he'll chime in. Raptors 3rd Company – 1845 +155 Battle Demi-Company –935 Captain – 155 Power Fist, Auspex, Jump Pack, Artificer Armor Tactical Squad (5) – 105 x3 Grav Cannon & Grav-Amp Rhino – 40 x3 Dozerblade Assault Squad (5) – 95 Jump Packs, Flamer (2) Centurion Devestators (3) – 250 Grav Cannons & Grav-Amp (3), Omniscope Skyhammer Annihilation Force – 490 + 155 Assault Squad (5) – 100 x2 +5 Marines +85 Jump Packs, Flamer (2), Melta Bomb Devestator Squad (5) – 110 x2 +5 Marines +70 Multi-Melta (4) Drop Pod – 35 x2 Raptors CAD – 420 HQ – 275 Lias Issodon – 175 Librarian – 95 Mastery Level 2, Auspex Troops – 110 Scouts (5) – 55 x2 Bolters Fast Attack – 35 Drop Pod – 35 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier319 Posted December 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 Hmmm I can only assume that since it's been liked an no one responded that it looks like a perfectly good list, and No one sees any real problems with it, and that my tactical assumptions and observations are about correct. i find that I WANT to put in some sternguard, but with ALL boltguns getting rending from the CT, that sternguard seem less and less worth their points cost to me. Loading everyone up with grav weapons seems to be the way to go, the alternate is plasma or melta, but It just doesnt seem to fit or carry the same effect. My only real question is adding in the extra marines to the Skyhammer for my 150 going from 1850 to 2k. Think that's the right call? My list has a little of everything, and more plays to the mission and to exploit enemy weaknesses, not focus on my own strengths. just enough melee units and power to exploit weakness in melee (tau, guard, some eldar, some necrons), enough shooty to keep some foes at bay (orkz, some necrons, demons, etc), and enough numbers to outnumber the TRULY elite armies (Grey knights, imperial knights, etc). I think that how well it does will truly come down to how it's used. some of the really rock paper scissors lists like a five IK list, or hard-core bike spam might give me some issues, but then again, it depends on the game and the general. rambling aside, does anyone see any glaring serious weaknesses? lack of punch? lack of coverage in a certain area? anything at all? Would you be worried at all seeing a list like this across the table? I admit having a lack of anything hardcore cover ignoring is a problem, but I will most likely just roll for perfect timing and make use of my auspexes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IW Raptors Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 My initial reaction is it's a bit light on numbers. From what I've experienced, skyhammer hits hard but has a short lifespan once it's on the field. I think you are going to end up infiltrating the tactical squads as otherwise they will take at least a turn to get into range, as Raptors no longer have scout, instead they get shrouding and +1 to night fight first turn if they aren't embarked upon a transport. So I might consider dropping the Rhinos if you play on tables with ample cover and infiltrate them. The librarian is nice, but I've found you either go in on psykers or not, as one level 2 at this point range probably isn't going to get powers off reliably. My personal preference would be towards a CAD instead of Demi company, and losing the captain and assault marines, making Lias your sole HQ. But I can see the appeal of the Demi company. I'd just prefer the points for more bodies myself, maybe storms for the scout squads if you do forgo the Rhinos. Overall though I think the original list is pretty nifty and no knock over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 Hmmm I can only assume that since it's been liked an no one responded that it was posted on Christmas. The list looks great overall. Raptors have a great Chapter Tactic that really ups the power of their bolt guns. 'Twere I, I'd invest a bit more in getting more scouts on the board as they work great with the Raptors CT as they get up close and put out damage on virtually anything. I would ABSOLUTELY put Lias in with the Cents as shrouding can really help you out. I like how by using the battle demi company the jumpers are Ob Sec. That's pretty slick since they are worthless for the most part, but fast ob sec like that is tasty. I think this list brings a ton of great alpha strike, but has enough tricks to work other ways. I think you'll like it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier319 Posted December 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2015 My initial reaction is it's a bit light on numbers. From what I've experienced, skyhammer hits hard but has a short lifespan once it's on the field. I think you are going to end up infiltrating the tactical squads as otherwise they will take at least a turn to get into range, as Raptors no longer have scout, instead they get shrouding and +1 to night fight first turn if they aren't embarked upon a transport. So I might consider dropping the Rhinos if you play on tables with ample cover and infiltrate them. The librarian is nice, but I've found you either go in on psykers or not, as one level 2 at this point range probably isn't going to get powers off reliably. My personal preference would be towards a CAD instead of Demi company, and losing the captain and assault marines, making Lias your sole HQ. But I can see the appeal of the Demi company. I'd just prefer the points for more bodies myself, maybe storms for the scout squads if you do forgo the Rhinos. Overall though I think the original list is pretty nifty and no knock over. actually they keep scout. as it actually lists their chapter tactic in the forge world listing. at least that's my understanding, backed up from articles on frontline gaming. Since it does not just say "as ravenguard" it actually spells out what that means. Is there anything that definitively states that they do what raven guard do, or do they use what is actually printed in the PDF? Well, as for the advice, thank you. If they LOSE scout, then yes, i'm more inclined to get shrouded. if they keep scout, i'm more inclined to take the rhinos. Also, Ob sec grave cents, is sick. So tell me, what would you put in for 'more bodies'? just more tactical marines? tons of scouts? just zero transports period? seems VERY static without transports. you know the transports can infiltrate if they are dedicated, right? that makes them far more mobile and allows for sick alpha striking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier319 Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Alright, here's a new list. I really wanted to run some Assaulties, and well, I found out that the FW raven guard guy makes them troops. Happy day! And their CT is half hte same, and i wont even use the rending thing on the assaulties or the CC scouts. So, it's the best of both worlds. Tons of Ob sec MSU, some power units, some fluffy stuff, and the heavy anti-tank is the rapiers, as they are brutal against both infantry and tanks. The plan if i go down to 1850 is to drop 5 scouts and 5 assaulties. That'll give me 1850 almost exactly. not sure what to do with my 15 points right now. What do you guys think? Enough boots on the table? Remember the raven guard stuff has shrouding on the first turn, helps the assaulties out immensely. The other option (listed below) is to drop the rapiers down to a TFC, drop the locator beacon, and add in 5 more scouts, and 5 combi-meltas onto the sternguard, allowing for some more direct anti-tank, whether i choose to infiltrate, scout or deep strike the sternguard in the pod. This trades out my arty for another type, that does something similiar but different and gives me five more scouts. What do you guys think? This list can be used with EITHER the old Raptors CT, or replacing it with the current RG CT. Completely flexible and while it will change how the army plays in the first turn, it wont make or break it. The rapier rules in case you needed them http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/RapierQuadMortar40k.pdf Raptors 3rd Company – 1985 Raven Guard Combined Arms Detachment – 625 HQ – 155 Captain Orelius (Koryvade) – 155 Troops – 470 Scouts (5) – 60 BP & CCWs, Melta Bomb Land Speeder Storm – 40 Heavy Flamer Assault Squad (10) – 185 x2 Jump Packs, Flamer (2), Melta Bomb Raptors Combined Arms Detachment – 1360 HQ – 175 Lias Issodon – 175 Elites – 110 Sternguard (5) – 110 Troops – 600 Tactical Squad – 105 x3 Gravcannon & Grav-Amp Rhino – 40 x3 Dozer Blade Scouts (10) – 110 Scouts (5) – 55 Fast Attack – 45 Drop Pod – 45 Locator Beacon Heavy Support – 430 Centurion Devestators (3) – 250 Gravcannon & Grav-Amp (3), Onniscope Rapier Mortar Battery (3) – 180 -=OR=- Raptors Combined Arms Detachment – 1375 HQ – 175 Lias Issodon – 175 Elites – 160 Sternguard (5) – 160 Combi-Melta (5) Troops – 655 Tactical Squad – 105 x3 Gravcannon & Grav-Amp Rhino – 40 x3 Dozer Blade Scouts (10) – 110 Scouts (10) – 110 Fast Attack – 35 Drop Pod – 35 Heavy Support – 250 Centurion Devestators (3) – 250 Gravcannon & Grav-Amp (3), Onniscope Thunderfire Cannon – 100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 I like option A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier319 Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Annnd the last one for now (I promise). Thank you for all your feedback. Is to replace the rapiers with a TFC, and upgrade two of the rhinos to razorback with TL Assault Cannons. Gives me a little more punch and anti-air, and keeps some of the anti horde punch of the TFC. The changing of the sternguard over to honor guard is just something I wanted to do, and while their shooting is slightly less good, they still have rending. are much more durable, and give me another hefty melee punch in a pinch. Heh.. punchy pinch. ANyway, here's the last version. I can STILL put in the honor guard, even if i keep the rapiers. at this point the real question is... two TL asscan razors and a TFC, or the rapiers. (Thank you fluger and IW Raptors) Raptors Combined Arms Detachment – 1380 HQ – 175 Lias Issodon – 175 Elites – 140 Honor Guard (5) – 140 Knight Elligost “The Fool” w/ Thunder Hammer, Power Maul (4) Troops – 680 Tactical Squad – 105 x3 Gravcannon & Grav-Amp Rhino – 80 x2 Dozer Blade, Twin-Linked Assault Cannon Rhino – 40 Dozer Blade Scouts (10) – 110 Scouts (5) – 55 Fast Attack – 35 Drop Pod – 35 Heavy Support – 350 Centurion Devestators (3) – 250 Gravcannon & Grav-Amp (3), Onniscope Thunderfire Cannon – 100 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 I like Raptors honor guard because they are upclose and their bolters actually matter. I like this list a lot, but I think Rapiers > TFC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier319 Posted January 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 Alright, after playing three game with the above list, I have made the following adjustments. Assault marines are just not good in close combat, even with with shredding HOW hits and the captain with hit and run. but i love them for harassment and objective grabbing, just not enough to have 20. I also have noticed that the accuracy of the rest of the army suffers a lot, missing a lot of grav shots or bolter shots in the wrong turn can be crippling. SO i've put together a gladius, with a full unit of obsec assault marines. i found them really good for grabbing objectives and abusing backfield units. the captain is cheap, will generally go wherever he wants. able to infiltrate with things other than assault marines, be a solo threat, or back up a failing flank. I added in a few more squads of scouts, brinigng my bolter scouts up to 30 (i found myself wanting more of them in the practice games). Also the captain and the grav cents being obsec is amazing. Another thing, is this list works very well with either the old or new CTs, though the scout is better IMO. The assault marines here wont be as protected due to not having shrouding, but the assault doctrines will help them hit about as hard as their raven guard versions. The accuracy doctrines also significantly shore up my list's defense against fliers and flying MCs. Thoughts? Raptors 3rd Company – 2000 Gladius Strike Force – 1205 Battle Demi Company – 1040 Captain – 155 Artificer Armor, Jump Pack, Power Fist, Auspex Tactical Squad – 110 x3 Gravcannon & Grav-Amp, Melta Bomb Rhino – 40 x3 Dozer Blade Assault Squad (10) – 185 Jump Packs, Flamer (2), Melta Bomb Centurion Devestators (3) – 250 Gravcannon & Grav-Amp (3), Onniscope 10th Company Strike Force – 165 Scout Squad (5) – 55 x3 Boltguns Raptors Combined Arms Detachment – 795 HQ – 175 Lias Issodon – 175 Elites – 140 Honor Guard (5) – 140 Knight Elligost “The Fool” w/ Thunder Hammer, Power Maul (3), Power Axe Troops – 265 Scouts (10) – 110 Boltguns Scouts (5) – 55 Boltguns Scouts (5) – 60 CCWs & BPs, Melta Bomb Land Speeder Storm – 40 Heavy Flamer Fast Attack – 35 Drop Pod – 35 Heavy Support – 180 Rapier Mortar Battery (3) – 180 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Knight Elligost “The Fool” w/ Thunder Hammer, Power Maul (3), Power Axe I misread this at first as tho Elligost was carrying all five of those Weapons, which would def be a good argument for him being called "The Fool". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier319 Posted January 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 I misread this at first as tho Elligost was carrying all five of those Weapons, which would def be a good argument for him being called "The Fool". HAHAHA. Yes. Indeed. The model is carrying everyone else's weapons. He's like a henchman from Nodwick. No, he's "the Fool", because the Raptors hate all ideas of glory and honor, they just care about getting the job done. He has the "HOnor or death" rule. He sees himself as Isodon's bodyguard, and is vehement about protecting him. This leads him to challenge the most powerful fighters to try and take them out to protect his chapter master. Isodon has requested he stop, but he is headstrong and young, but extremely gifted, and he has never endangered a mission to do this, so it is overlooked. yay backstory. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 I was thinking more like he was using them all at once. Two Mauls in one hand, a Maul and a Hammer in the other, and the Axe sort of strapped to his face so he can headbutt people with it ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier319 Posted January 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 No. that's the boss nob of my nob squad in my ork army. Silly West, getting my armies confused. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier319 Posted January 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 some in progress models for my Raptors. thought you guys might want to see. Issodon is the guy with the fancy boltgun. I'm pretty damn proud of that one. the other is the captain for the demi-company. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IW Raptors Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 That Lias Issodon looks pretty dang good man! Especially like the Malice conversion. Currently mine is just a fancy bolter with a scope, and power sword he literally never swings (well not in half a dozen games now!) Was thinking on converting up a proper one, might take some pointers from what you done! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier319 Posted January 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Sweet. My Issodon ended up chopping up some plague marines with his power sword last game. It was one of those epic slap-fights, you know? The plague marines couldnt hurt his unit of cents, and he needed fives to wound. eventually he won (thank god they didnt have a power fist anymore, my precision shot scouts killed him on turn one, believe it or not xD). Thanks for the compliments. I hope the ideas serve you well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IW Raptors Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 My Lias has killed two scouts in half a dozen games. And that is okay, because he is a special snowflake who confers a bunch of rules and makes things happen. But sounds like yours is putting in some more arm work in game! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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