Just for Funsies: A fluger Version of the Ork Dex

[fluger]

Here's what I've come up with.  

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mDaPgxnRhXtbmR3kqJZY9gb6IwdhPwpL0VYqdNAWN3c/edit?usp=sharing

 

Now, it needs to have points assigned to everything, which I haven't gotten into at this point.  The vast bulk of the dex is OK, and a lot of units would be better if they were just simply a few points cheaper.  

 

Mostly I was interested in changing some of the things to be more generally useful to create better internal balance.  

 

I also really wanted to make some formations that would be thematic to the different Ork Clans, but still relatively effective.  I don't think any of them is going to give the Decurion or Battle Company a run for its money, but I think one could build a competitive list out of those restrictions with those bonuses (assuming the points values for a few units gets adjusted to something more palatable).  

 

Anyway, this was just something I cooked up over a few spare hours, just wanted to share.

[WestRider]

I'd play against it. If anything, there are one or two things (like the Skarboyz upgrade) that I think you've overpriced.

 

Also, a couple of the Formations say they grant a bonus to certain Unit in that "Army". That should probably be "Formation", or you're giving FNP or something to Models from other Detachments.

[VonVilkee]

And add a grand waaaahg that is a decurion style of 3+ clan formations, no dupes allowed until one of each is fielded.

[fluger]

I'd play against it. If anything, there are one or two things (like the Skarboyz upgrade) that I think you've overpriced.

 

Also, a couple of the Formations say they grant a bonus to certain Unit in that "Army". That should probably be "Formation", or you're giving FNP or something to Models from other Detachments.

 

Its tough to gauge the cost of upgrades when the base cost of the unit hasn't been established.  Good catch on the army/formation thing.

 

And add a grand waaaahg that is a decurion style of 3+ clan formations, no dupes allowed until one of each is fielded.

 

For apocalypse only!  :D  I tried to make the formations pretty heavy in cost so that they really couldn't supplement or be supplemented to.  

[VonVilkee]

Doesn't mean it can't exist! As the additional command benefit it should be orks never lose...

 

At the beginning of each Ork turn you may remove any broken units and add the remaining models to any unit still in play. Then proceed to make any regroup test. The original units do not count as destroyed for victory purposes, and the units increased in size retain their originally purchased size for regrouping and other rules considerations.

[fluger]

A couple changes that I thought were really important.  

 

1.  Big Choppas getting rending.  Currently, you pay points to make your Nobz worse in melee against most things.  Now, its a real option for most Nobz and definitely on Warbosses who would get to use their I4 for the first time in ages.  

 

2.  (M or G)orkanauts getting SuperHeavy-lite.  DIdn't want them to go full on Super Heavy, but they really needed some help.

 

3.  Cybork bodies and Dok's Tools stack.  It also sneakily gives Ghaz a 4+ FnP that (assuming you have him with a Painboy) he can't lose thanks to Eternal Warrior.  I'd have to play with the points to make it work out, but it really bugged me that Cybork and Doks Tool didn't stack before, even though the net effect is identical.

[sorienor]

-keep doc's tools as they are, so characters can get a 4+ FNP with cybork change.

-psychic powers should not be shooting. They should all be CC buffs/debuffs. I like the +1A and deep strike powers.
-Love the idea of Big Choppas getting rending, but then the points would have to go up. Probably 15, but 10 would do.

-Interesting idea with the shootas.

-Painboy: 1-3 per slot

-wierdboy - ACCESS TO BOOK POWERS!@!@!!!@!!!!
-boys: drop a point.

-Meganobz/nobs: have access to cyborks (even a 6+fnp on this guys would be awesome)

-Trukks: Ramshackle on a 4+ or just make it like the 3rd ed book of a 6++

-Killa kans drop to 20pts or 30pts and normal power klaw
-'naughts: Superheavy, +25pts

Your formations are too specific (aka complicated) without enough benefits for the requirements.

For example:

Speed Freaks:

1-3 HQ
2-10 FA
0-5 Troops
0-3 Elites
0-2 Heavy

-reroll warlord trait
-All models gain skilled rider
-Infantry units MUST take dedicated transports, or can not be taken.
-Trukks as dedicated are free

[generalripphook]

Free trucks are too much.

 

Maybe shrouded turn one due to smoke?

 

Maybe a bonus to seize?

 

Or how about fast attack becomes objective secured instead of troops?

[galahad911]

Free trucks are too much.

 

Maybe shrouded turn one due to smoke?

 

Maybe a bonus to seize?

 

Or how about fast attack becomes objective secured instead of troops?

 

Truks are garbage. Free garbage is still garbage.

[pretre]

Wait, wait wait. Free trucks are too much? But free drop pods and razorbacks are cool?

[fluger]

-keep doc's tools as they are, so characters can get a 4+ FNP with cybork change.

 

Maybe.  I think 4+ FnP would be too much though since you can do it on entire units then.  

 

-psychic powers should not be shooting. They should all be CC buffs/debuffs. I like the +1A and deep strike powers.

 

While I agree that that would be more effective and powerful, its also not very fluffy. I tried to make the shooting attacks useful and potent at least and made the primaris a buff power.  

-Love the idea of Big Choppas getting rending, but then the points would have to go up. Probably 15, but 10 would do.

 

10 would be fine, that's what I was thinking.  

 

-Interesting idea with the shootas.

 

I wanted to make them better for sitting on objectives and blasting, I think it works more or less.

 

-Painboy: 1-3 per slot

 

I'm not too concerned with it because I'd be hoping to push people towards the formations which have lots of slots for painboyz.  

 

-wierdboy - ACCESS TO BOOK POWERS!@!@!!!@!!!!

 

I'd take daemonology away instead, honestly.  Perhaps come up with some better powers in their own tree?  

-boys: drop a point.

 

Agree in principle, I'm not touching points as that's a huge labor of love.  

 

-Meganobz/nobs: have access to cyborks (even a 6+fnp on this guys would be awesome)

 

They effectively can with a Painboy, but I get the point.  

 

-Trukks: Ramshackle on a 4+ or just make it like the 3rd ed book of a 6++

 

I considered the 6++, but I think lowering the penalty for explosions and a dropping of points would make it work just fine.  

 

-Killa kans drop to 20pts or 30pts and normal power klaw

 

Yeah, they need to be cheaper, but I don't mind having a different klaw, I see them more as shooty rather than fighty.  

-'naughts: Superheavy, +25pts

 

I think that's a bit too much, that's why I gave them superheavy-lite.

 

Your formations are too specific (aka complicated) without enough benefits for the requirements.

 

For example:

 

Speed Freaks:

 

1-3 HQ

2-10 FA

0-5 Troops

0-3 Elites

0-2 Heavy

 

-reroll warlord trait

-All models gain skilled rider

-Infantry units MUST take dedicated transports, or can not be taken.

-Trukks as dedicated are free

 

Eh, but then you could build a list that isn't speed freeks.  I could take just a warboss on bike, a nob biker squad, and two deffkoptas and then two Deff Dreads?  

 

I mean, I get what you're driving at, but I like making it more specific.  

[generalripphook]

I am just saying don't add free units, give them a cool rule that is more exciting.

 

I disagree with any free unit/upgrade.

[fluger]

Truks are garbage. Free garbage is still garbage.

I think Trukks are overall fine, they just need to be cheaper (like 20 pts) and not blow up so hard.  

 

Basically, even though they die quickly, if you go first, you can move up really quickly and be threatening for turn 2 (especially with Waagh!) even if it gets blowed up.  Or, they are fast enough that you can hide them behind cover and still move up pretty quickly to give you a leg up.  

 

Ultimately, dropping from 30 to 20 pts isn't going to be a huge deal unless you are bringing like 8 of them, but reducing the strength will make it so that boyz in trukks don't get hurt so bad.  Currently, if the trukk explodes, its you lose 5 of 12 boyz.  With S3, it'd be 4 or 3.  I get around this by putting meganobz in there who don't care about the explosion and who are otherwise too slow anyway. 

 

Actually, as I was thinking about this, what about if Ramshackle worked like this:  If the Trukk suffers an explosion result, roll a d6.  On a 3+ the result is changed to Wrecked instead.  

 

Thoughts?  

[fluger]

I am just saying don't add free units, give them a cool rule that is more exciting.

 

I disagree with any free unit/upgrade.

 

I don't.  I'll paraphrase something I just read about this that encapsulates my opinion.  Other formations get benefits that have a value.  How much would you pay to get a +1 to reanimation protocols for Necrons?  Or the ability to come in on Turn 1 with your reserves?  Getting free items (to me) isn't any better or worse than getting free abilities.  

[generalripphook]

There is no different between a snake bite and a bad moon trukk.

 

However there is a difference if a special rule makes them such.

[fluger]

Snake bites shouldn't have trucks.

[generalripphook]

Ork clan a and ork clan b.either way the point is the same.

 

Basically I'd rather have a rule which makes a army behave more in the way the u it's in the army behave than a unit. I'd rather catachans have stealth in jungles than free sentinels (and that's not just that sentinels are bad units)

[scottshoemaker]

"Units with 'Ere we go! don't apply results from overwatch shooting until the Intitative 0 Fight subphase.  Any casualties from overwatch shooting do not count for combat resolution"

 

The intent is that overwatch shooting won't stop the charge, and the boys would get to fight before they die.  The dead boys wouldn't cost the mob the combat.

[fluger]

"Units with 'Ere we go! don't apply results from overwatch shooting until the Intitative 0 Fight subphase.  Any casualties from overwatch shooting do not count for combat resolution"

 

The intent is that overwatch shooting won't stop the charge, and the boys would get to fight before they die.  The dead boys wouldn't cost the mob the combat.

2 things.

 

1.  This would be incredibly difficult to keep track of because you'd have to move "dead" models and then remove them later.  Trying to remember which boyz died to overwatch would be problematic from a practical perspective.

 

2.  I have less issue with overwatch specifically and more with the overwhelming firepower available to lots of armies now.  Scat bikes, Wyverns, Thunderfire Cannons, etc just plain murder mobz of boyz like they are going out of style.  As WestRider mentioned elsewhere, the game really needs a hard reset, and the current outlier units that can cause casualties at a rate unseen in 40k before really need to be curtailed before anything can really move forward.  

[VonVilkee]

Oooooo e'er we go should allow for assaulting after a rally!

[fluger]

Not a bad suggestion, but I like the other idea of resurrecting the old mob up rule.