fluger

Yeah, Mort is talking of allying in Sisters to add punch to his force.

I'll just say that a good friend of mine who has played BA for years and has been a top player in South Africa for years (he's won or gotten second in their champions tournament for the last 5 years IIRC) has stated that BA are losers too. He's gotten several games in and is kinda frustrated with them. I don't play marines enough to know what's what, but I trust his take.

Can one or both of lyraeus and/or peter.cosgrave get an avatar? I keep thinking someone is having a conversation with themselves.

Yeah, and you still have 5 attacks...

Other than the high strength? 5 attacks hitting on 2+ at s6 is pretty good. Also, you get one attack that does d3 damage...

Orks first, Guard second. I have two flavors of each I want to run. Horde Orks and Stompa Orks Massed Infantry with tank backup IG and all tank IG. My project army is going to be building up a Rough Rider army. :D

Pay for 4, get 12 shots.

Yeah, I used that with my orks to disrupt and take the wind out of the sails of a counterattack. I feel like sequencing assaults is where the tactics in the game start to stand out.

Are you driving down just for Friday and then driving back up? Would you be up for a ride buddy? I'm not 100% sure if I can go or not, but just checking things out.

I made a google sheets list for my armies. Honestly though, the stated reason for points being the way they are is that they are easier to change per the stated plan of doing yearly points adjustments.

Looks good. The conscripts can be a useful tarpit or objective holder. Good choice.

Agreed. I found the power level of my Ork lists to be over the expected amount in points because I eschewed a lot of options, while my IG list was right on point. I was more commenting on LH's apparent belief that power level equates to friendliness...

Fascinating.

Question that came up last night, is there no cover save for being obscured any more? I couldn't find it.

Again, what do you think the functional difference between power level and points is? Again, large models/units have never been the primary driver of first turn losses, 40k is generally dominated by MSU especially when it comes to shooting. Again, in a game where you activate 100% of your forces, it matters not how they are divided up. What makes first turn losses happen is the way turns work, not Big Units.

In I Go You Go games, MSU is almost always the most efficient unless a death star can be achieved, and even then requires MSU backup. 426 pts of Obelisk is intrinsically less powerful in 7th than equal points of small units of scatter bikes or what have you. When the advantage of going first is using one's entire army first, it matters not at all how it is divied up, because it is 2k pts activating first. Interestingly, the mechanic of who goes first in 8th edition is set to counter the power of MSU by letting the person who finished deploying first go first.

Yup, quick and dirty way to make up lists on the fly to get games in without sitting around adding things up carefully. I know that I have friends who find list writing to be tedious and daunting, and, the power level system is much more streamlined.

In your mind, what is the difference, functionally, of power levels and points?

What Westie said. Power Levels are just points lite so you can quickly make approximately matched forces without getting out calculators. It has nothing to do with Friendliness. You are literally just saying "no units above 260 pts" That wouldn't've made friendly events in 7th (hello scatterbike spam!) and it means bubkus now.

They seem to have more versatility than Hellions and are significantly more survivable against normal attacks. They dish out less damage in melee against lighter targets, but can do mortal wounds and they have options vs really hard targets. 220 6 reavers, 2 grav talons, 2 blasters. 12 t4 wounds with 4+ save 12 s4 attacks with ap-1, 2 mortal wound attacks. 16 bs 3+ splinter shots + 2 blasters 221 13 Hellions 13 t3 wounds, 5+ save 26 S4 attacks with 2 dam each 26 splinter shots 72 MEq bolter shots to kill reavers 43 MEq bolter shots to kill Hellions Hellions are better at clearing lightly armored living targets and reavers are better at dealing with tougher targets. We'll see though, you could easily be right.

Flamers still make sense to discourage assaults.

Isn't it a bit premature to say they got worse? They doubled in wounds and gained 4" of movement. With combat drugs they can move 18". They hit on 3s now instead of 4s typically in melee. At 12" it can fire 3 shots now. They can also advance 26" and then shoot assault weapons on a 4+. That's a 44" blaster threat range or a 35" threat range for heat lance half range. Turn two they should be able to charge if they want with the reroll on assault. Heck, with 18" move and 2d6 charge they are a turn 1 assault threat.

Just shooting.

Exorcists seem like a reasonable answer at range.