Ish

Last time I did a massive expansion of my Armored Battlegroup (three Russ Conquerors and an Atlas) I bought used “regular” ones on eBay, striped the paint, and bought three turrets from FW. The Atlas was made by adding some strategically placed plasticard, stowage bins, and the tow hook/winch from a dollar store tow truck. These days I’d probably get the turrets from Shapeways, Puppets War, or wherever. I’m not actually interested in going back to the Imperial Guard. I’m probably going to take your advice and buy some Rhino-chassis sprue frames from Horde’O’Bits, snag some third-party turrets, and make some Predators and Vindicators that way. Still kicking around alternatives to the Repulsor.

Orks generally want to keep their basic boyz in large squads due to morale issues. Mob Rule means they use the squad’s own Leadership (6 or 7 with a Boss Nob), the number of models in the unit, or the number of models in a friendly unit (that also has this ability) within 6". So a suitably large number of Ork Shoota Boyz or Slugga Boyz can be all but immune to morale while it runs across the table. They’ll lose about a third of the lads to enemy shooting, but they’ll still get into mêlée. Once Ork Boyz are in mêlée (even “shooty” mobz like Shoota Boys) they generally outperform any other basic infantry point-for-point. The only real reason to run less than 15-lad strong mobz is so you can stick them in a Trukk. Even then, you probably want to have a big 30-lad mob running behind them on foot... The Trukk Boyz are your first wave: zoom up, hop out, assault. Then the big green tide of footsloggers rolls in next turn.

I think it’s clear this thread has drifted from my theoretical tank-heavy Space Marine list to me just theorizing about lists in general... But, if you want tanks, here. Have some tanks: ++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [121 PL, 2000pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Valhallan + HQ + Tank Commander [12 PL, 217pts]: Augur array, Heavy Stubber, Hunter-Killer Missile, Lascannon, Plasma Cannons, Relic: Kurov's Aquila, Warlord, WT (Valhallan): Tenacious . Command Battle Tank: Battle Cannon + Elites + Atlas Recovery Tank [5 PL, 106pts]: Heavy bolter, Heavy Stubber, Hunter-killer missile + Heavy Support + Leman Russ Battle Tanks [30 PL, 462pts] . Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Stubber . Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Stubber . Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Stubber Leman Russ Battle Tanks [20 PL, 326pts] . Leman Russ Demolisher: Dozer blade, Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubber, Turret-mounted Demolisher Siege Cannon . Leman Russ Demolisher: Dozer blade, Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubber, Turret-mounted Demolisher Siege Cannon Malcador Heavy Tank [15 PL, 248pts]: 2 Autocannons, Battle cannon, Heavy bolter, Heavy Stubber, Hunter-killer missile Stygies Destroyer Tank Hunter [24 PL, 336pts] . Styges Destroyer Tank Hunter: Heavy Stubber, Hunter-killer missile . Styges Destroyer Tank Hunter: Heavy Stubber, Hunter-killer missile + Flyer + Thunderbolt Heavy Fighter [15 PL, 305pts]: 6 Skystrike Missiles, 2x Twin autocannon, Twin lascannon ++ Total: [121 PL, 2000pts] ++ Nine Leman Russ-chassis, one pseudo super-heavy, and a nasty little close air support surprise for anything that tries to outflank me. Loan me about $1,200 and this can be on a table near you in 6-8 weeks. 😁

You gotta have basic troops. Tanks and giant stompy robots are great for killing people and breaking things, but you need a pair of boots carrying a rifle if you want to hold ground.

I’m not sure this is all that “competitive,” since it sinks nearly half its total budget into a single model... But it should be fun. The Dreadnoughts exist to help handle hordes through sheer weight of fire, play mêlée bodyguard for the Fellblade, and give enemy anti-tank shooting three targets to worry about. Techmarine patches them (or the big guy) up and has the mobility to get where he’s needed. The rest of the infantry grab an Objective or two and camp out on it. ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [67 PL, 1102pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + **Chapter Selection**: Imperial Fists + HQ + Primaris Captain w/Power Fist [6 PL, 92pts]: Plasma pistol, Power fist, Storm of Fire, The Armour Indomitus, Warlord Primaris Lieutenants [5 PL, 74pts] . Primaris Lieutenant: Power sword Techmarine on Bike [6 PL, 102pts]: Conversion beamer, Plasma pistol, Power axe, Twin boltgun + Troops + Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Stalker Bolt Rifle . 4x Intercessor . Intercessor Sergeant: Chainsword Intercessor Squad [10 PL, 179pts]: 2x Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle . 9x Intercessor . Intercessor Sergeant: Power fist Intercessor Squad [10 PL, 179pts]: 2x Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle . 9x Intercessor . Intercessor Sergeant: Power fist + Elites + Primaris Ancient [5 PL, 69pts] Redemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 161pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Icarus Rocket Pod, Onslaught Gatling Cannon Redemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 161pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Icarus Rocket Pod, Onslaught Gatling Cannon ++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Imperium - FW Adeptus Astartes) [35 PL, 898pts] ++ + Lord of War + Relic Fellblade Super-heavy Tank [35 PL, 898pts]: Heavy bolter, Twin heavy flamer . Two laser destroyers: 2x Laser destroyer ++ Total: [102 PL, 2000pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe

I dunno... Between the Sept Tenet and their exclusive “shoot twice” Stratagem, I’d say Vior’la Stealth Battlesuits look pretty tasty.

If I can’t use them in my force — and because of keyword restrictions I basically can’t — then I’m not going to count them.

Tau have five generic HQs in their Codex and two more from Forge World. The Imperial Guard only have six in their Codex and the five that Forge World adds are locked to specific regiments and are just minor variations on Codex options (three for Death Korps, two for Elysians). Vanilla Space Marines have a lot, but mostly because 8th Edition’s design means every armor option is its own data sheet now. It’s still pretty much just Captain, Chaplain, Librarian, Techmarine, and Lieutenant.

Oh, believe me, I’m quite familiar with all of Citadel and Forge World’s tasty, tasty tank lines... I’ve just never been as awestruck by the Baneblade and it’s variants as others. There was very rarely anything one Baneblade-chassis tank could do that couldn’t be done by a squadron of Leman Russ-chassis tanks couldn’t do as well (if not better) for the same cost. The Stormlord was a notable exception... But I never saw a need for it in my Armored Battlegroup (a couple Chimera could taxi my Poor Bloody Infantry just as well) or in my Infantry Company (they tended not to move much). For my Space Marines, my main goal in getting some tanks is getting ahold of something that can deal with Knight Titans. But I want it to be something “in faction” and preferably something “fluffy,” because I’m just wired that way. Predator Annihilators do alright at softening up a Knight are range (so a thunder hammer Captain or a Hellblaster Squad can finish it off), they’re in-faction, and being a ubiquitous Astartes tank they’re very fluffy. I’ve always liked the looks of the Predator Destructor more, but autocannons aren’t that hot against Knights. (But turrets are easily swapped.) The Vindicator is powerful, common to all Astartes, and as a siege tank it is extremely fluffy for the Imperial Fists... and it just looks cool. Going further afield, the various Land Raiders would be great, but Primaris Marines haven’t figured out how to duck yet. So they can’t get in them. The Astræus certainly packs the firepower, but it’s performance isn’t that much greater than the Fellblade... and I like the looks of the Fellblade more. If I’m going to pay these sorts of prices ($340 Astræus, $280 Fellblade) then I might as well get the one I think is prettier.

Of course, probably the easiest thing to do would be to create a name and page of background blurb for a new version of each of these characters’s game mechanics, but members of the other Chapter/Sept/Klan/Hive-Fleet/Etc. Longstrike of T’au, Ironeyes of Sa’cea; Sgt. Chronus of the Ultramarines, Lt. Kuijia of the White Scars; Eldrad of Ulthwé, Myfanwy of Biel Tan; and so forth...

Our Successor Chapters have more Special Characters than we do! There's three Special Characters for the Black Templars (Helbrecht, Grimaldus, the Emperor's Champion), two for the Crimson Fists (Pedro Kantor, Alessio Cortez*), and only good old Lysander for us!? The weird thing is that the Ultramarines have three characters who are super-duper leaders (Gulliman, Calgar, Sicarius), two who are super-duper psykers (Tigurius, Nastase*), one who is a super-duper Terminator (Agemman*), one who is a super-duper marksman (Telion), a super-duper Chaplain (Cassius), and a super-duper tank commander (Chronus). It strikes me that several of those are supposed to be the shtick of other vanilla marine Chapters. Give Telion to the Imperial Fists (basic boltgun marksmanship is our gimmick), give Chronus to the Iron Hands (or the "having more tanks than anybody is our only known gimmick" Aurora Chapter), maybe give the White Scars Tigurius (since having super-awesome mongolian space wizards is part of their gimmick), and so forth. * Okay, so he's been dropped, but still..

Po-tay-tau. Po-tau-to. Does that make them the Adeptus Cust'audes?

Imperial Fists have one Special Character, Darnath Lysander. He's amazing at what he does, but what he does doesn't really mesh with the rest of the Chapter's traits, stratagems, relics, et cetera. He's a TH/SS Termie Captain dialed up to "11," in a Chapter that leans towards massed Intercessors, Tacticals, and Sternguards. Oh well, at least we have a Special Character. Sorry, Iron Hands!

They're the Ultramarines of the fish-people.

I honestly never found the Shadowsword all that impressive. For roughly the same amount of points, I could field a squadron of Destroyer tank hunters, which were just as good at killing Titans if they all fired on the same target (especially in those editions were the Slick Loaders upgrade was available) and if there weren't any Titans on the table, they were far more efficient at killing super-heavies and regular tanks. "He is a loathsome, offensive brute. Yet I can't look away."

Tau tanks suffer from the same problem the Eldar tanks do... They bring a lot of mobility to a table that's just too damn small. If (and hopefully when) we see a proper remake of Epic 40,000 then the Tau and Eldar hovertanks will really be able to strut their stuff. The 6' range of the railgun combined with the 1' Fly move of the Hammerhead is kind of "meh" on a table thats only 6' x 4'... But imagine how much impact it would have on a table that was 30' x 20'!* Plus, you'd be able to put a Manta on the table without having to sell your car.

B-b-but... How can anyone not like tanks!? They are tanks!

A Longstrike-led Spearhead of T'au Sept Hammerheads could (in theory) be absolutely brutal...

There's two tanks in the list! Which is admittedly very few... And Space Marine tanks aren't very good tanks... Maybe I'll get a Fellblade...

That's my "catch-22," I want to have as many of the Indomitus Crusaders Specialist Detachment eligible units* in one Detachment as possible, to make it the most efficient at applying the Specialist Detachment to them. On the other hand, the Indomitus Crusaders Specialist Detachment chews up CP like crazy, so I need to maximize the amount of CP in the list. I'd love to be able to run this as a Brigade, but I can't quite get the maths to work. * Primaris Captains, Lieutenants, Ancient, Intercessors, and Inceptors.

So this iteration of the list has, more or less, all the same elements as the previous, but gives up a fair amount of CP... ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP [ 1,131 Points ] ++ Chapter Selection: Imperial Fists + HQ + • Warlord Primaris Captain w/Power Fist: Plasma Pistol, Power Fist, Trait: Storm of Fire, Relic: The Armour Indomitus [ 92 Points ] • Primaris Lieutenant Power Sword [ 74 Points ] + Troops + • Intercessor Squad: 10x Stalker Bolt Rifles, 2x Auxiliary Grenade Launchers; Sergeant w/ Chainsword [ 170 Points ] • Intercessor Squad: 10x Bolt Rifles, 2x Auxiliary Grenade Launchers; Sergeant w/ Power Sword [ 174 Points ] • Intercessor Squad: 10x Bolt Rifles, 2x Auxiliary Grenade Launchers; Sergeant w/ Power Sword [ 174 Points ] • Intercessor Squad: 10x Auto Bolt Rifles, 2x Auxiliary Grenade Launchers; Sergeant w/ Power Fist [ 189 Points ] • Intercessor Squad: 10x Auto Bolt Rifles, 2x Auxiliary Grenade Launchers; Sergeant w/ Power Fist [ 189 Points ] + Elites + • Primaris Ancient Bolt Rifle [ 69 Points ] ++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP [ 869 Points ] ++ Chapter Selection: Imperial Fists + HQ + • Primaris Librarian: Psychic Powers: Null Zone, Smite, Veil of Time; Force Sword [ 101 Points ] • Techmarine: Plasma Pistol, Power Maul, Servo-Arm [ 54 Points ] + Heavy Support + • Hellblaster Squad: 10x Heavy Plasma Incinerator [ 350 Points ] • Predator Annihilator: Turret Twin Lascannon, Sponsons Two Lascannons, Pintle Storm Polter [ 182 Points ] • Predator Annihilator: Turret Twin Lascannon, Sponsons Two Lascannons, Pintle Storm Polter [ 182 Points ] ++ Total: [ 9 CP; 11 PL; 2,000 Points] ++

Ah, yes, it was the Tetra that I was thinking of... Frankly, it shouldn't be too hard to take a Piranha and kit-bash it into something that would make an effective Tetra. The official kit is pretty much a Piranha without wings, a "roof," and a parascope type thingy. You could probably just assemble a Piranha without the wings, cover up the joining point with some platicard panels, and stick a bunch of sensors, antenna, and AWACs dishes on it.

Battlescribe!

I just like knowing that I can always rely on having 20-30 of my Marines in cover. 2+ Save Intercessors and Hellblasters just seem really valuable... But, no, I'm not married to the thing. Edit to Add: I can't get a Brigade to work, I keep coming up 200± Points over the limit if I include everything that I want and the "tax" units. Fooey.