Natetehaggresar

Hey I'm last minute trying to decide what food to bring.... Does Ordo have a microwave?

@thediceabide has a narrative infinity rule set on Facebook, "Gangs of Neoterra," which is a take on infinity mixed with necromunda. So all your dudes level up, but none of them start as bad assed as a swiss guard.

A campaign pitting your team against some zombies alone sounds kinda boring IMO. If they're zombies they may as well be NPCs and you can play the game solo.

One system I liked a few years back had a very interesting take. Each campaign had a number of players managing their gangs, and the campaign itself had a third party act as something akin to a game master. Each mission could have npcs that didn't act based on present rules, and you could do thinks like have ambushes or lots of hidden information about the board and NPCs the players themselves didn't know about. Fwiw the game was called "wreck age."

The problem with narratives is they need substantial planning and involvement to be satisfying. A bad narrative is easy to create. 

I think that's one reason for the reliance on ITS. You can set down with anyone who plays and get a relatively satisfying game experience, without substantial planning or long term i.e. league commitments.

Hey @dataentity, 

Some games just have dumb luck. I had a few in a row last month, I had one against @WiseKensai where get got 4 crits on me during my first turn, and a similarly unlucky tournament earlier that week. Something about infinity compared to 40k is that you have fewer units and fewer dice rolled in a game. When you make 100 die rolls or fewer in a game outlyers occur, when you make 1000+ die rolls, it's more rare to get a freak game. Sometimes you just have to grin and bear it. If the dice say no, it's not your fault, there is actually nothing you can do, so don't sweat it.

That said, three take aways.

1. I always have terrain that can block Los to S7 on my tables. Tags are hard enough to use, no reason to make it even harder. (And I mean always, even when I'm not using a tag, my opponent might be bringing one.)

2. The only bad range on a HRMC is 0-8. They drop to +0 outside of 32. The worst you could be at is -9 for TO and cover, baring things like low vis zones.

3. Don't over extend a tag. They're really powerful, but as you see can be really fragile to certain types of attacks. I always leave orders in my pool to retreat my tag to a safe position. Never let an opponent get free hacks on it. (Accidents happen, and you were tilted, just keep calm and carry on). @Raindog has played against my Sally once or twice, and he's always shocked when I run away after a good turn.

Yes spare painted tables are available at your request...

2 minutes ago, Sgt. Rock said:

I agree about the ojotnik. But I still say infiltrating snipers are tricky enough to use that they're kind of an advanced tactic. Or maybe that's just because I'm bad at the game.

For what it's worth you generally don't want to infiltraite with a sniper. I normally keep mine hidden deployed towards the back of my d zone watching very long lanes.

BUT sometimes there is an excellent opportunity to exploit the infiltration. One game I played there was a building with a shallow slanted roof just out of my Dzone. I could deployment prone on the roof and watch the whole oppsite (right hand side) while being blocked by a chimney from across the board. It nailed down a vanguard link and a sogarat (bad ranges). 

Just because you have a skill doesn't mean you always need to use it. 

33 minutes ago, Sgt. Rock said:

Alright, fine, infiltrating camo snipers are good when used properly. They're just so tricky to use, though, that I tend to just discount them in favor of stuff that's got a broader application. Which sucks, because I really want my Scout AP Sniper rifle to be good, but I'm just not good enough to use him properly.

There is a big difference between TO (hidden deployment and -6) and just regular camo.

Also the ojotnik is generally a better gun (for the price) anyway and doesn't cost swc.

20 minutes ago, Sgt. Rock said:

I can understand not using Spektrs, because they're so damned expensive (though everything but the MSR and basic combi are worth what you pay for) but not using Clipsos? Those are one of the best units Tohaa has! I mean, I'm biased, coming from Ariadna and all, but camo infiltrators can be game changers (and game winners, for that matter.) Try bringing the Spektr next time, especially the KHD. Sure, he's not an Interventor, but I'm pretty sure that the only hacker in the game that's better than Interventors is Mary Problems, and even that's debatable. The KHD Spektr is WIP 14, and has the advantage of surprise shot coming out of TO camo. Super solid.

Also, grenades are [big bad swear word]ing awesome, especially on warbands. They can make great direct fire, FtF weapons, too. Some of them are pretty situational (the Igao's stun grenades, for example... probably only of value against multiple wound models with total immunity, because stun ammo is exotic, hence Loup Garous carrying flash grenades.) I have used grenades of all types to good effect in the past; linked LGLs are awesome, though perhaps not in triads because all you get is the +1 burst that gets negated by spec fire anyway. I've used Dog Warrior grenades to force a FtF roll if someone tries to dodge my chain rifles. And yeah, E/M grenades are stupid good, especially if there's no engineer handy. Grenades of various sorts don't seem to be commonly included in high-cost, low model count factions, though; Tunguska only has the one source of smoke grenades on Perseus and that's it, am I right?

But yeah, try the infiltrators & FD guys. And with MI getting it in ITS X, try a Grenzer haris; take a spitfire and then a forward observer to push buttons. A B5 spitfire escorting a specialist and deploying 16" up the board is nothing to sniff at. Rambo runs with Krizas and Hollow Men are great, but if they lose a gunfight, you've lost the tip of your spear, and since you'll probably not have both of them due to their expense, you're kinda up [big bad swear word] creek at that point.

Spekr MSR is my favorite Spektr, don't talk crap about him. 

You need to know where to deploy him, and when to pop him. If you do either wrong he sucks, if you do them both right he is a nightmare.

You can put me down

Well, thats lame,

But if you get better before next weekend, the 10th and 11th, please let me know.

Woot! I have a table at my place in North East Portland. Let me know when on Saturday you wanna play.

Hey all, the missus and junior are going to Bend that weekend and I'm staying in Portland.

Who wants to play infinity or dare I say, maybe some Aristeia?????

I know some people are going to Seattle for the ECI that weekend, but not I! Please let me know if you want to play, I'm free all day November 10 and 11!

@DustGod

The effect of landing a hit with a mine dispenser is to place a mine, the attack doesn't cause damage. Mml2 changes your damage to add shock. In this case MML 2 has no effect.

Fwiw mines already have shock.

Motorcycles categorically cannot cautious advance. (Neither can remotes or tags)

http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Cautious_Movement

Use the numbers on the camo tokens and note on your private list what number corresponds to what list elements.

In a less formal setting, I don't typically take notes. As you get more experienced you'll get more familiar with your force and won't mis-deploy your camo.

Of course this all varies based on meta. I don't typically make it to ordo so I don't know what's expected locally. Your camera method can work too. 

Honestly I can't remember ever being asked to wip out my camera and prove a hidden deployment, even at a tournament. If you need to win so bad you cheat you can have it.

8 hours ago, DustGod said:

When can an Immobilized 1 T.A.G. perform a reset? - Aros trigger on orders spent in ZoC or LoS. If you are Imm1 the requirements for reset to be a legal order are me. So yes you can reset. See http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Reset

Can a T.A.G. Perform a Reset if in IMM1 state and an Enemy declare an order in L.O.S.? see above

Can a T.A.G. Declare a Reset for every Order spent on it while Possessed? No. If you are possessed you no longer control the TAG, it's an enemy model. Also you don't meet the reset requirements. Finally reset does not clear the possessed state. (See the linked reset rule).

Can a Manned T.A.G. Declare a dodge As an ARO to Exit the T.A.G. Being attacked with IMM1 or Possessed State Hacking Attack? Dodge requires LoF, so it depends on the situation. Even if you do dodge, it won't help much, you can't target tags with overlord or total control if the pilot is dismounted. The tag was mounted when targeting happened.

 

At what point can a Manned T.A.G. Being Mounted or Dismounted be ARO'd  When does the T.A.G. count as Full Cover? When you mount/dismount you use the new profile for the whole order. So if a pilot dismounted, the robot half never activates (and therefore blocks lof). Never mount or dismount as a second skill, it breaks the game. They've started specifying that you can only mount/dismount as the first skill declaration. (See ai motorcycle for instance) I would expect older rules to be updated to match eventually.

I can see the appeal of Arianda now...😋

Just stuff that came up from Sundays Game 
Thanks for your help in Advance 

@Ichi CC'd as this was from our "keystone cop" T.A.G. Battle Sunday 

@Sgt. Rock I dunno the grenzer lft+Combi is the weapon load out for the FO+sensor, which I like more then the securitate hacker generally speaking.

It's also the grenzer haris and lt load outs, pretty multi purpose.

Also I haven't been following the infinity new too closely, but I would assume there is no reason why they couldn't release another box later?

Grenzers are still missing ;

Spitfire

ML

Boarding shotgun

Securitate are missing 

MSR

Feurbach

Seems like you could make a box from that? (Let alone I'd happily buy up new grenzer Combi lft sculpts and especially securitate repeaters!)

@Exile that's precisely the issue though, its a matter of expectations. I don't care how this is played, I can alter my model positioning and ARO strategy and play the game fine under either RAW, or the "gentlemanly disregard of RAW." I don't care.

I find RAW is a better gameing experience when I run across other people, because then we have the same expectation. 

At the same time you seem to take issue with microscopic pie slicing, but I assume you don't take issue with the general concept of pie slicing? Thats a judgement call where reasonable people with disagree with what is or is not microscopic. I just allow any pie slicing, there is no judgement call for my opponent and I to disagree about what is or is not too small.

You can still play gentlemanly RAW, Andrew and I have played games at Adam's tournaments where we put an S2 up in the air to see what the rodok can see. In my opinion its only ungentlemanly when people are violating each other expectations, the game works fine when both players are playing by the same rules. (Which still can use cleaning up and clarification, and I wouldn't at all be opposed to a retraction of this "erratta"). Adding unspoken or ambiguous expectation on to the gaming experience is one thing that can cause breakdown.

1 hour ago, Sgt. Rock said:

See, I've always thought that was dumb. Its' a limitation of putting guys on such big bases. In real life, it would be super easy to put your back against a wall and cover both directions, but because of that little quirk, you can't. It's pretty stupid, I think.

To be honest, I just stood with my back to the wall and couldn't see the wall in either direction, while looking straight ahead. I realize that it doesn't take long to avert my eyes to look either way, though it wouldn't take someone very long either too pull a trigger and put me down if they snuck up on me. The game is an abstraction, and the rules are an abstraction with a basis in real life, its not a perfect simulation. (I assume changing my orientation is change facing.) In the end if facing is to matter in the game, and arbitrary cut off needs to be picked for what can and cannot be seen.

That being said I was not a fan of this errata when first published, and I continue not to be a fan of it. It does open up some gamey options, at the same time, it is a game. The end effect is that you can only really ever safely cover one corner ofa building, and you need someone else to watch your back. You haven't really discussed this rulings effects on this game in 3 dimensions, its really easy to shoot someone in the back from the front as you come at them from a ledge above or use super jump, those are the more "degenerate" uses of this eratta.

For all those peeps who howl that mutts are over powered, this ruling helps keep them in check, they can't be sure to cover both sides of a builing with a emarat+chain rifle. The mutt can only cover 1 direction with those weapons, and a B2 shotgun in their back, or a B3 or 4 rifle etc is very likely to beat their jam ARO.

Anyway I play the game as CB writes it, because it causes less problems when you meet up with peeps from other metas. IF you don't play the same game, its hard to play the same game. 😕

In the end I don't particulary care how it is played so long as everyone has the same expectations, thinking you can/can't cover 2 corners at once and finding out the opposite is what causes games to suck, not the consistant application of either rule. You can always plan and play appropriately.

For what its worth the wiki SHOULD (but won't) be updated to incorporate this eratta LoF. The application of this errata would mean the underlined text should be added.

For a troop to be able to draw LoF to its target, it must meet these conditions:

• The target must be within the troop's front 180˚ arc.
• The troop must be able to see, at least, a part of the volume of its target with the size of the target's head, or a minimum size of approximately 3x3mm (the size of the black squares on the Silhouette Templates).
• LoF can be drawn from any point in the troop's front 180 arc volume to any point in the target's volume.
• LoF can be obstructed by figures—friendly or not—and pieces of scenery.

@thediceabide you got it right when we discussed it after the game. I made the call wrong, during the game.

Reference

http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/topic/44258-discover-discover-vs-impersonator/

Oh and this is the next tournament at glimpses.

https://its.infinitythegame.com/event/62a1c2ec3-raucous-august-glimpses-its

Pmed

I can generally do evening after 7 or 8. We could play at pgs, or I have a table in my basement (and beer).

I could play this evening if you want at my place. Wife has a massage scheduled this evening, after Bas goes to bed we could play.

As promised, link to Adam and I's battle, with lists.

Please remember to like your friendly Nomad's battle rep!

https://kuragecrisis.warconsole.com/battles/natetehaggresar-vs-thediceabide-1530816825

I like them a lot.

Part of the challenge of tunguska, at least in theory, is learning how to deal with less chaff you can throw away.

Everything is expensive and valuable. I can't corner guard with morlocks or jags. Even my camo is expensive and can't even recamo.

Right now I see the mine layer puppeteer, and the AI bikes as part of the solution. 

A cheap order, and mine layer help to hold off a rambo, and counter intelligence helps to make first turn better than it would be otherwise.

A zondnautica deployed dismounted, gives you a cheap remote that can corner guard. (If the bike dies you still have an order, and can fix the bike if you want with the clock maker. Two things to note.

1. The bike has smoke grenades so you can choose to FtF to burn enemy shots/orders, or if they're too far away. If they are close you just trade hits with the DTW.

2. The PDF says the disconnected bike is impetuous, army says it's not. The PDF is normally right. If army's is right a mimitism corner guard with cover would be sweet.

I'm not sure which profile I like best. The spitfire is an awesome attack piece, but if the mate dies you loose a lot. The boarding shotgun is cheaper which is a plus, and can really wreck up close if you create an opening. Hackers a specialist, that is important too.

Happy to, but I'm still just messing around with Army Builder at this point.

Adam and I are planning on playing a game Monday. I'll post it for Kurage, and can share the link.