Lord Hanaur Posted June 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I will. I will. But it was quite the humbling loss. Oofta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 he kept his Knights way out of range and that was very bad. Backfield knights are so much harder to kill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted June 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Invincible. You can pay 215 points for a Leman Russ or... pay not twice as much, get three times the fire power and make them unkillable with blockers and such. ugh. But of course, these Imperial Knights totally belong in normal 40K, right? /smh As long as those things are allowed, I better not hear a word about D-Weapons on Eldar because even WITH D weaons, the Eldar have their work ahead of them against anyone whose canny enough to recognize the carnage six rounds of two Imperial Knights can cause! My main frustration on them as that you can't stun them and shake them. That alone would be enough to make them totally fine i normal 40K. But no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 How did you get 215 points for a Lemun Russ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 How did you get 215 points for a Lemun Russ? This was my question. A basic Russ is 150, and there's not really much in the way of worthwhile upgrades there to shell out more Points for. A Knight Paladin, with roughly twice the firepower, is 375. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted June 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Plasmacutioner with Lascannon can be 210 or more if you throw it in the back with Camo netting and use it as a shooting platform like the Imperial Knights. Just as an example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Russes get spendy quick. Though the comparison is funny because LR Vanquishers and Battle Tanks are some of the least impacted by backfield knights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Plasmacutioner with Lascannon can be 210 or more if you throw it in the back with Camo netting and use it as a shooting platform like the Imperial Knights. Just as an example. So yeah, if you go for the really expensive Russ with the really expensive options (because GW always overprices AP2), the comparison to a reasonably kitted out Knight looks bad. But if you compare 2 standard Russes with Camo Netting, AND the Aegis Line for them to hide behind, that's almost exactly the same Firepower you're getting from a Paladin, with AV14/13/10 and a 3+ Save instead of 13/12/12 and a 4+, for only 5 Points more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 And if you squadren Lemun Russes its even harder to get a lower armor side arc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted June 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 aaand no. Because the Lerman Russ's can be shaken. they aren't SIX hull points and so on. they dont do interceptor anti air for the love of pete. THESe are huge issues of difference. nd plamacutioners arent rare so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Comparable Points value of Russes is 6-9 Hull Points per Knight. The Knights' Anti-Air is comparable, Point for Point, to a Hydra, and more expensive than a Quad Gun. And my experience with Russes is that they rarely suffer Pens except from things that are more likely to blow them up than Shake them, which is usually as much or more HP damage on a Knight. And I didn't say the Plasmacutioner was rare. I said it wasn't a good comparison, because basically every aspect of its firepower is different from anything you can get on a Knight, and in ways that GW tends to overprice. If you look at the Russ that has basically the same weapon as a Paladin, they come out fairly even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted June 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Wait what? How is, generously, 400 points in Leman Russes with an aegis with a hydra... less points than a Knight?it isnt. And thats the point. So no. The knight is far superior and for less points than yhe combined costs of what you just said. PLUS stomp? You know of any stomping Russ's? Know any that can fight back? Know any that do so w d weapons? Or that can leave their aegis behind and still get tge saves a Knight does. No. Im sorry that I dont find common ground with that characterization. Knights are just plain better. Way better. Its not even a close race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 We were talking about keeping a knight in the back field were we not? And yes 400 points of Russes, aegis and hydra is the same as a paladin with a anti-air weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted June 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 It isnt. Unless you're stripping the Russ's down, it really isn;t the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Okay for a backfield presence plain paladin at 375 Lemun Russ 140 Lenin Russ 140 aegis defense line 50 Now that's a 45 point difference, with the same long range weapon and a +4 save. You can use those 45 points to get camo netting to make their save better or give them lascannons to make them better against the knight. And if they just sit there and shoot at each other the knight can't even pen the lemuns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 And if you shell out the 35 Points for an Icarus for the Paladin, that leaves enough Points for the IG to pick up a Hydra and still be 10 Points under what the Knight costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Well, semantics aside, which do we see getting added in to as many competitive lists as possible? We all know which is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 The Knights certainly have other advantages (including the fact that they can be slotted into other Armies with no "tax" Units), and are clearly an excellent choice. I just don't feel like the gap is nearly as big as LH is saying. And that's coming from someone who's played far more Games against Knights than using them myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 As someone that uses and loves Leman Russes, I'd trade them in a hot second for a knight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted June 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 and how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Well, semantics aside, which do we see getting added in to as many competitive lists as possible? We all know which is better. I don't think that's it. I think the LoW slot is often unused and the knight formations don't require TAX units which aren't really wanted/needed for a particular army. If my DA could field 2 russes, an aegis, and a hydra as a LoW slot, or even as a special detachment, I think the imperial knight would be less appealing. Requiring Either a tank commander upgrade, and 1 troop, or an HQ and two troops really limits the value of the AM allies instead of imperial knight ones. Plus it's painting 1 model vs painting several models. Weapons wise, I really don't think the knights are very impressive for 375pts. Being able to field only the one knight, without needing a troops and an HQ, that is impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Guys, I don't think the Knight is broken or anything, but you're KIDDING yourselves if you are only looking at the shooting power of the knight in this equation... Come on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Well, the specific point that started all this was Knights that are kept in the Backfield, thoroughly bubble-wrapped. If your Opponent is doing that, the Knight is essentially reduced to its firepower and durability. If, on the other hand, they advance with it to take advantage of its mobility and Assault capabilities, it becomes far easier to bring stuff like Meltas to bear, and to bring firepower at it from multiple directions to mitigate the Ion Shield and front AV. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Guys, I don't think the Knight is broken or anything, but you're KIDDING yourselves if you are only looking at the shooting power of the knight in this equation... Come on. Westrider has it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted June 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Weapons wise, I really don't think the knights are very impressive for 375pts. We couldn't disagree more. Really. That is really just hard to believe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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