Eldar Air Force concept ready for testing

[Lord Hanaur]

7th Edition is here and the new Eldar Codex are here, so I revampd the list for 7E.  Not 100% sure I will actually like it this way.  I took it up against a Triple Imperial Knights list using the BAO mission 1.  Barely tied.  He had one dude, and two limping Razorbacks left at games end.  I had the three Jets left.  BLOODY.  Ironic that the planes survived despite him sporting THREE anti-air cannons with intercept etc...  on his Imprial Knights.

 

There is no way I would have even been close to a tie without the D weapons.  Now it's my first game using the new Eldar but dayam.  If there's even the possibility of seeing three Imperial Knights on the table, and there obviously is, I need it.  Not enough Lances in the world to get through all those shields and Hull Points with any surety.  The Crusader was suuuuper beefy and he used Psykers to protect him also which was smart.

 

One interesting thing is that the D-weapons for WraithGuard and my Hemlocks can only wound on a 3+, plus the Hemlock weapons can never get a 6 on the chart.  So I was kind of surprised (and pleased at the same time) because some of the hate over it has probably been overblown in that regard.  I mean sure it will mess things up, big time in some cases, but having to a roll a 3+ just for a shot at it is kinda significant.  I failed twice to get anything out of a Heavy D-Scythe direct hit.  So that limitation did matter quite a bit in our game.  Had a 6 turn to a 5 which does only D3 Hull points on another hit.  So yeah...  

 

I'm Thinking of dropping the Guns on one of the Windryder units and also  War walker to add another unit in.  I had Guardians originally in that slot.  That could work again?  Another option might be a Farseer on Jetbike to lead the group and give them access to their Runes.  Seems pretty awesome to have.  If i could squeeze them in, some Fire Dragons could help defend the line?  I dunno.  I'll give it some thought.

 

185pts  Hemlock Wraithfighter

 

185pts  Hemlock Wraithfighter

 

160pts  Crimson Hunter (Exarch)

 

215pts  3 Warwalker (2 with Dual Star Cannons.  1 With Eldar missile Launcher+Scatter Laser)

 

215pts  3 Warwalker (2 with Dual Star Cannons.  1 With Eldar missile Launcher+Scatter Laser)

 

165pts  3 D-Cannons

 

98pts  4 Windryders (3 x Scatter Lasers)

 

98pts  4 Windryders (3 x Scatter Lasers)

 

81pts  3 Windryders (3 x Scatter Lasers)

 

450pts  9 Warlock Skyrunners

 

140pts  Autarch Skyrunner (Mandiblaster, Fusion Gun, Shard of Anaris)

[fluger]

Not going to lie, this list looks really mean and in not a fun way.  

[crono]

*edited for readability*

Having looked over the list, I think it could really use the new codex update...  Also, the considerations below are from some ideas that I am tinkering with for an air force list I would like to build (adding the crimson hunters formation.)  But in this case I tried to keep many of the themes that you have in your list, but sacrificed the war walkers.  My version though definitely will not make any friends...

 

1995pts - 1 CAD, and Warhost detachment -

 

CAD:

 

HQ

-140pts  Autarch Skyrunner (Mandiblaster, Fusion Gun, Shard of Anaris)

 

Troop

-71 pts  3 Windryders (2 x Scatter Lasers)

-71 pts  3 Windryders (2 x Scatter Lasers)

 

Fast Attack

-185pts  Hemlock Wraithfighter

-185pts  Hemlock Wraithfighter

 

Heavy Support

-165pts  3 D-Cannons

 

 

Windrider Warhost Detachment:

 

-115 pts  Farseer Skyrunner

-350 pts  7 Warlock Skyrunners

-71 pts  3 Windryders (2 x Scatter Lasers)

-81 pts  3 Windryders (3 x Scatter Lasers)

-81 pts  3 Windryders (3 x Scatter Lasers)

-40 pts Viper

 

Crimson Hunters Formation:

 

-140 pts  Crimson Hunter

-140 pts  Crimson Hunter

-160 pts  Crimson Hunter (Exarch)

[Lord Hanaur]

I dont think that list is legal.  The Allied Detachment cant be from the same Faction.  You'd need to change it to a Combined Arms detachment.

[crono]

I dont think that list is legal.  The Allied Detachment cant be from the same Faction.  You'd need to change it to a Combined Arms detachment.

You're right... totally forgot, and I'm making the modifications.

[Prophecy]

That list is mean for sure. I have a list that is somewhere between the both of you but I put a few squads of aspect warriors in. I like the look of certain units too much to make that sort of list.

[galahad911]

I dont think that list is legal.  The Allied Detachment cant be from the same Faction.  You'd need to change it to a Combined Arms detachment.

 

It is legal. It's not an allied detachment, it's a warhost detachment.

[Lord Hanaur]

eh...  You're missing it.  He CHANGED the list he had.  it WAS an Allied Detachment.

[crono]

@LH: While I know it gets ride of the war walkers, but it was more of possible update for you to consider.  Reactions?

[Lord Hanaur]

 

1995pts - 1 CAD, and Warhost detachment -

 

CAD:

 

HQ

-140pts  Autarch Skyrunner (Mandiblaster, Fusion Gun, Shard of Anaris)

 

Troop

-71 pts  3 Windryders (2 x Scatter Lasers)

-71 pts  3 Windryders (2 x Scatter Lasers)

 

Fast Attack

-185pts  Hemlock Wraithfighter

-185pts  Hemlock Wraithfighter

 

Heavy Support

-165pts  3 D-Cannons

 

 

Windrider Warhost Detachment:

 

-115 pts  Farseer Skyrunner

-350 pts  7 Warlock Skyrunners

-71 pts  3 Windryders (2 x Scatter Lasers)

-81 pts  3 Windryders (3 x Scatter Lasers)

-81 pts  3 Windryders (3 x Scatter Lasers)

-40 pts Viper

 

Crimson Hunters Formation:

 

-140 pts  Crimson Hunter

-140 pts  Crimson Hunter

-160 pts  Crimson Hunter (Exarch)

 

 

Okay so I don't own the Crimson hunters to do that list, so i am responding to the idea of it more than whether I would use it.  

 

Clearly its a mismatch for most enemies.  It simply overwhelms the enemy with reliable air power.  My one hesitation on this would be the some specific matchup problems.  With my list, if I HAD to I could outflank and tie up hordes and things like it that might be used to cut off my movement and those jets will take up a lot of space.  So if the enemy concentrates on killing nothing but Jetbikes and spreading out, it could be tough because without the Farseer battery to power up the Hemlocks, they might not get the mileage you want and landing planes could be dicier than you'd like.  So protecting the Seer Council is kinda important in round 1 and 2.  After that it should be fine to go all out.  

 

The list is a DIRE mismatch for many enemies like I said.  I think putting five planes in the air no matter what army it is will find a definitive advantage.

 

So I give it a definite "Yahoo" as a powerful list.  Other problem is it is three Detachments.  So for what that's worth.  Probably wont come up too much anymore but its worth thinking about.

[Lord Hanaur]

Dawn of War, 5 Objectives.

So I got another game in with the air force. this time against my ten year old son and the nefarious Dark Eldar Haemonculus Coven.

His strategy during the game was to kind of hold objectives and use terrain to mask himself to the extent that he could while waiting for his Talos to come in and swarm me from behind on outflank.

The game started well for him. He drew first blood knocking out my D-Cannons, but then the Eldar Jetbikes went to town on his Raiders and the Raiders once again proved what I have said many times: their fortitude is so worth the points when they are Jinking. Despite that i was able to take two of them out out of five, stranding one Grotesque unit in the back, but it was in a place where I was pretty unable to get any shots on them until MUCH later in the game and so that objective was pretty secure.

On his right he had a Raider and the Wracks. He had tied me up in the middle objective so perhaps was hoping to outlast me. The Warwalkers fixed that problem, but with the way I rolled, His Wracks might have pulled it off had I not gotten help from the Jets. I killed the last Wrack holding his right objective, on the last round, barely. So he ALMOSt took that one too.

The one in the middle stayed contested. Urien is awfully tough and he stood in there with the Autarch and his biker buddies just fine.

That left two objective to claim. the first was on MY left, and his Talos pretty much ended any chance I had at that one. Nothing I had could take them on. 

On my right my jetbikes were easily controlling that. 

So at games end, I zoomed Bikes up to take the Center, my right and his right objectives, while he held on to his left and my left. Final Score was 10-7 Eldar.

Not a bad game for the wee nipper! Soooo fun to play with your kids. I was proud of him and his attitude was very good too. He sometimes gets down when he's losing but he didn't do that this time and was pretty upbeat.

Perhaps someday he will succeed me and take my place here. But he'll have to fight me for it in the grimdark!

EDIT: By the way: Hemlock WraithFighters are just epic. I am so glad I have them in my list. The Hemlock Wraithfighter was way under rated in the last codex anyways, but it is straight up awesome now.

[Guest]

Okay so I don't own the Crimson hunters to do that list, so i am responding to the idea of it more than whether I would use it.  

 

Clearly its a mismatch for most enemies.  It simply overwhelms the enemy with reliable air power.  My one hesitation on this would be the matchup problems.  With my list, if I HAD to I could outflank and tie up hordes and things like it that might be used to cut off my movement and those jets will take up a lot of space.  So if the enemy concentrates on killing nothing but Jetbikes and spreading out, it could be tough because without the Farseer battery to power up the Hemlocks, they might not get the mileage you want and landing planes could be dicier than you'd like.  So protecting the Seer Council is kinda important in round 1 and 2.  After that it should be fine to go all out.  

 

The list is a DIRE mismatch for many enemies like I said.  I think putting five planes in the air no matter what army it is will find a definitive advantage.

 

So I give it a definite "Yahoo" as a powerful list.  Other problem is it is three Detachments.  So for what that's worth.  Probably wont come up too much anymore but its worth thinking about.

 

Okay, sake of argument, opponent has an equal number of interceptor skyfire weapons as you have eldar planes. Did the eldar planes get any more durable with the new codex? Are they able to not jink and survive?

 

Main issue with flyer armies is the off-chance that the opponent can actually cope with flyers. With FW being legalized at GG, (Thank you Captain A), getting the skyfire weapons I need for my marines is much more feasible.

[Lord Hanaur]

Paxmiles, if they have lets say four different sources of anti-air, which in't outlandish given that Space Marines can have one in every Tactical squad, it could be problematic if I don't do something.  Of course the best course is to TO something about it.

 

The list was designed to deal with Anti-air.  I foresaw that this could happen, obviously and you will notice that the War Walkers primary duty IS to kill the anti-air units dead.  Two units sporting AP 2 weapons en masse, plus the missiles, should be very adequate at stunting ground based and skyborn threats to my aerial attack.  They are there FOR that purpose.  I wanted the longest range AP 2 things I could find so that Aegis guns would go away.  To deal with Flyers, we have the Eldar missiles and the Crimson Hunter.  

 

Now its ironic that you bring up interceptor.  I fought a Knight army with three KNights as i mentioned, ALL armed with Twin linked interceptor anti-air and tough as nails!  So your question hs been asked and answered.  The way I dealt with that was i lured them into charging my Seer Council and locked them up.  I couldn't afford to have the Knights free to fire away.  He might have just NOT taken the bait, but then I'd have had a D-Cannon unit bearing down on him for a second round, and I don't think he was willing to find out how that would end.

 

Flying Monstrous Creatures using Vector Strike and other means are equally concerning.  Fortunately, the Heavy D-Scythes can hit Flying Monstrous Creatures with both the Psyker phase and the shooting phase (Hard to Hit rule allows it because I have Skyfire).  Frankly, the heavy D-Scythes miss more often than they hit (duh) and can't hurt anything on less than a 3 anyways, so you are definitely relying on the Psyker phase more than the shooting to handle THAT anti-air issue. The Crimson Hunter however is quite proficient at striking FMC's.  It's got the Star Cannon load out also and can fire six shots into an FMC from a range longer than their Vector Strike.  It can out maneuver anything but FMC Psyker powers usually, as I found in my first game against FMC's.  Having said all that FMC's with Psyker powers or vry good shooting are a definite issue and I respect the hell out of the threat they pose.

 

Lets face it Paxmiles:  nothing is perfect and an enemy who bones up on anti-air is GOING to have a better day (and less points elsewhere).  That's maths.  But my list doesn't rely exclusively on planes.  It has other offensive power.  So if they have to take a back seat, that's life in the fast lane.  All you can do is play the game, pretty much.

[Guest]

Was just making sure you had considered it.

[Lord Hanaur]

Werd. I definitely did

[galahad911]

Paxmiles, if they have lets say four different sources of anti-air, which in't outlandish given that Space Marines can have one in every Tactical squad, it could be problematic if I don't do something.  Of course the best course is to TO something about it.

 

The list was designed to deal with Anti-air.  I foresaw that this could happen, obviously and you will notice that the War Walkers primary duty IS to kill the anti-air units dead.  Two units sporting AP 2 weapons en masse, plus the missiles, should be very adequate at stunting ground based and skyborn threats to my aerial attack.  They are there FOR that purpose.  I wanted the longest range AP 2 things I could find so that Aegis guns would go away.  To deal with Flyers, we have the Eldar missiles and the Crimson Hunter.  

 

Now its ironic that you bring up interceptor.  I fought a Knight army with three KNights as i mentioned, ALL armed with Twin linked interceptor anti-air and tough as nails!  So your question hs been asked and answered.  The way I dealt with that was i lured them into charging my Seer Council and locked them up.  I couldn't afford to have the Knights free to fire away.  He might have just NOT taken the bait, but then I'd have had a D-Cannon unit bearing down on him for a second round, and I don't think he was willing to find out how that would end.

 

Flying Monstrous Creatures using Vector Strike and other means are equally concerning.  Fortunately, the Heavy D-Scythes can hit Flying Monstrous Creatures with both the Psyker phase and the shooting phase (Hard to Hit rule allows it because I have Skyfire).  Frankly, the heavy D-Scythes miss more often than they hit (duh) and can't hurt anything on less than a 3 anyways, so you are definitely relying on the Psyker phase more than the shooting to handle THAT anti-air issue. The Crimson Hunter however is quite proficient at striking FMC's.  It's got the Star Cannon load out also and can fire six shots into an FMC from a range longer than their Vector Strike.  It can out maneuver anything but FMC Psyker powers usually, as I found in my first game against FMC's.  Having said all that FMC's with Psyker powers or vry good shooting are a definite issue and I respect the hell out of the threat they pose.

 

Lets face it Paxmiles:  nothing is perfect and an enemy who bones up on anti-air is GOING to have a better day (and less points elsewhere).  That's maths.  But my list doesn't rely exclusively on planes.  It has other offensive power.  So if they have to take a back seat, that's life in the fast lane.  All you can do is play the game, pretty much.

 

Possible issues with a 5 flyrant army, depending on who's going first and reserve rolls. Guess that's why we play the games. :D

[Guest]

Werd. I definitely did

You did catch that I was quoting your response to Crono's list, not your list, right? I'm replying to your comment about 5 flyers being overkill. And granting a huge advantage against any list.

[Lord Hanaur]

I c

[Lord Hanaur]

I played a Maelstrom game against Sisters of Battle with Inquisition allies.  Hammer and Anvil, and the mission where you get progressively more cards.

 

i deployed first but went second.  He ganked a couple Warlocks in round 1.  I clumped up and waited for his outflanking Dominion, distancing myself in such a way that he'd have to get out of his immolators to attack my units.  UNfortunately Celestine and Seraphim drppd in for a visit round 2, with me in a huge ball of death tailor made for any flamer armed persons dream.  He fortunately scattered 7 inches and killed a Jet bike and a Warlock Skyrunner.

 

On bottom of two I destroyed the Seraphim Squad with the D-Cannons and lota bike shots.  I got a Hemlock and Crimson Hunter on and some Jetbikes.  The Warwalkers came in way up field.  the Warwalkers blew up an Exorcist and most of a Retributor quad in the building it was hiding in.

 

Round 3 the Sisters of Battle flyer came on and Vector Locked a Hemlock (which was then forced on top of a rhino and it died because it couldnt land).  His Dominion came on.  One unit went to kill 2 War walkers and the other went to kill Warlocks in my backfield.  The ramining Retributors and Priest assaulted the other War Walkers.  The remaining exorcist took aim and Vector locked my Crimson Hunter.  He tank shocked the D-Cannons but they held the line.

 

On the third round, i was down 6-2 and I needed to start scoring.  I drew a card I wouldn't be able to score til next turn and two more I could so I moved my Warlock bikes as fast as they would go and fought on with the Retributors with the surviving War Walker.  The other War walkers destroyed the Dominions that tried to kill their buddies.  Squish.  One of the fun parts of the game happened here.  The Hemlock cast Dominate on the enemy flyer!  i was hoping he would crash obviously.  I also blew up his last Exorcist.  Score was 6-4, his favor.

 

On turn 4 he got mostly melee based cards but there were no characters to fight and no challenges to make.  He continued to pound a War Walker unsuccessfully (he never does kill that thing) and then the roll to see if the Sisters of Battle flyer would be able to move...  And he made his LD check.  Shew!  Close one.  BUT it failed its roll to shoot!  So it didn't get to kill my Hemlock.  With both Dominion dead, and his Inquisition inside their Land Raider which immobilized itself, with no reason to come out, it was a fairly uneventful round but the Flyer not being able to fire was cool.    He tank shocked the D-Cannons with the Dominion Squad Rhino but they held.  8-4 his favor when it was all said and done.  

 

On my turn four I got four good cards and scored all four, one of them for getting three units into the enemy deployment zone if the Warwalker survived the Priest and its Retributors (it did) etc...  I also got three different objective points.  The Hemlock nuked some Sisters of battle and the Crimson hunter flew off the board.

 

On round 5, he scored another card but again got a lot of melee/challenge cards from last turn and this turn that were too difficult to reach.  He ultimately scored a the card for killing a character and since Warlocks are characters, all he did was shoot a Warlock.  Lol.

 

Anywho on round five I drew badly as well.  There was only one card I could ACTUALLY score out of five.  ouch.  It was objecive Six, so I ran over to that and blasted away at his Sisters of Battle and their Rhino, but I couldn't kill them.  So it was tied.

 

The final Score was 9-9 on Cards, but I had First Blood and Line Breaker.  He had Line Breaker.  10-9 Eldar victory.

[pretre]

Never deep strike Celestine...

[Lord Hanaur]

If you had seen my huge clump of stuff, you'd have done it too.  Lol.

[pretre]

If you had seen my huge clump of stuff, you'd have done it too. Lol.

Nope. I just don't.

[Lord Hanaur]

Well I for one was ecstatic when he bounced off course 7 inches.  Cause if they hadnt, theyd have caused about a hundred thousand wounds.  Lol.

[Lord Hanaur]

I got annihilated by the Imperial Knights with Skittarri, with Inquisition.

 

Three codex's and piles of rules on each unit.  He stole initiative.  That was very bad.  he kept his Knights way out of range and that was very bad.  Coteaz little trick nuked an outflanking  War Walker squad with his Skitarrii and that was very bad.  So in brief, a lot of bad things happened.

 

Game ended with one model on the table, a D-Cannon gunner.  Lol.

 

Thoughts from that game:  no Eldar Jetbike unit will scare me more than the skittari Vanguard.  The Vanguard are straight up awesome.  And that they are relentless and i didnt know it til it was too late?  Super bad for me.  note to self:  they are relentless.  So make SURE you check those distances.

 

Other notes:  Imperial Knights who hang back and shoot are essentially invincible if their blockers do their jobs.  Giving them anti-air?  Ridiculous.  Making it interceptor?  WTF.

 

Also Inquisitors in the Vanguard units = win.  So theres that.

 

This time he didn't want ot get locked up with the Seer Council and stayed away from D-cannons and pretty much mopped me off the floor with 6 roundso f 2 Knights firing with Skitarri support.  

 

I now know to start 31" away from the Skitarri as well.  That way if they steal or go first, I can't get blasted off the board by their rifles before I get the chance to strike.  Thats important information.

[WestRider]

Well, I would note that for every Unit of 10 Vanguard, you can get 5-8 ScatBikes, which will absolutely destroy the Vanguard from 36" away. Just saying.

 

You got caught off guard, but you'll adapt as you get used to them.