Tyranid list building

[Last_Bullet]

I make lists for 2000 points.  Heres my crack at Tyranids and Ordo never steers me wrong…

 

Hive Tyrant: Lash/Bonesword, talons, Adrenal Glands, Wings, Old Adversary

Prime: Lash/Bonesword, Scything, Adrenal Glands, Fleshhooks

2 Tyrant Guard: Adrenal Glands

Tervigon: Regeneration

Hormaguant Brood x2: 10-man

Termagant Brood: 30-man

1 Venomthrope

3 Carnifex: Spine Banks, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs. 1 w/ crush/Scything, 2 w/ 2 Scything

Mawloc

Trygon Prime

Aegis Line with Comm Relay

= 1960 pts

 

Prime is warlord, he goes with Carnifex brood.  Flyrant leaves his guard when hes in charge range (if this gets FAQed might drop down to 1 guard so it can leave that way).  Flyrant needs to silence the big guns so Carnifex can get in.

 

Defense line at the half way mark (12” from my deployment) and first unit pooped from Tervigon mans the comms relay (so Trygon and mawloc have a better chance to come in turn 2).  Tervigon shields Venomthrope so everyone gets shrouding while behind defense line.

 

Gaunts hold objectives and make it hard for flyers to fly around.  Big guys do work.

 

So I still have 40 points to work with.  I have wiggle room in upgrades that I can get another 30 man termagaunt squad or a 3 man warrior squad.  But I haven’t played Nids since 3^rd and I love big bugs.  Will this “work”?  Any ideas before I go out and blow some hard earned money (I don’t own anything yet)?

[Guest]

So I still have 40 points to work with.  I have wiggle room in upgrades that I can get another 30 man termagaunt squad or a 3 man warrior squad.  But I haven’t played Nids since 3^rd and I love big bugs.  Will this “work”?  Any ideas before I go out and blow some hard earned money (I don’t own anything yet)?

Get a Harridan! You love big bugs and it's the biggest. It does require blowing hard earned money, but you've already planned to do that. It also costs a ton of points, which benefits you because it means less painting in a tyranid army (major plus).

-Pax

[Hobbitron]

Single flyrant likely isn't going to do much for you. With the tyrant guard there he will do well against first turn shooting. However, if you aren't going first, then you're paying a lot of points for something that just limits your mobility unless you ditch them, at which point the points become useless. Once you are swooping (which could be interesting, can you swoop while you have Tyrant Guard? What if you weren't with tyrant guard and end a swoop move within 1" of them?) you become a magnet for any/all skyfire the opponent has. And with only 1 target, there is no target priority for your opponent. Take him on foot, or take a harpy/crone with him. Or another flyrant in place of the prime. I think you'll be best served by dropping the wings and grabbing a guard though.

 

Hiding the Prime in the carnifexes is interesting, but be aware that you are going to absolutely shred anything and everything in combat with the fexes alone. You also open up the door for the opponent to play challenge shenanigans. I'd suggest dropping him to naked, or taking crown of norn. Let the fexes do the work, and he's just a caddy for synapse and a few extra attacks. At first I wasn't a big fan of the crown, but now I'm thinking a crown + dominion on a tervigon with a 2+ cover, 3+ armor, FNP, and regeneration will be a force to be reckoned with. Might want to give something like that a go too, and then turn the Prime into a Flyrant.

 

What's the purpose of the Trygon Prime? If he's there to pop up and scare people, he'll do well of course, but when it comes to resilience, he's no more resilient than a Mawloc. And a Mawloc will have more of an impact the turn he comes on. If you're bringing him for synapse, then he has more of a place, but you could also consider dropping him for a Mawloc + Zoanthrope. It'll give you another 2 psych powers, and keeps synapse going. And... another Mawloc. As much as I'd hate to admit it, the Mawloc is too good to not take multiples...

 

The dex is (and was really) about target priority. If you have a single target (like a single flyrant for instance, or just a single mawloc) then it's easy for the opponent to make decisions. If you're making it easy for them to make decisions, then you need to rely on units being resilient to being removed. Resiliency can be a hard thing for Nids. Even a 2+ cover save being aegis with a venomthrope can be reduced pretty quickly by 2 wounds on the venomthrope, or a single wave serpent. So, target priority will be more reliable on average. Don't let your opponent make choices that benefit him and remove a threat. Make him choose between two threats.

 

I can't wait to get in a game with the new dex. Got a new baby though, almost a month old. So might be awhile till I can put this stuff down on the table, but reading up on opinions, and played plenty with nids in 5th (they're the only army I've played). Those observations are based on what I've read and deduced on my own.

[fluger]

Only thing I want to know about is thoughts on why adding poison to carnifexes.  

[WestRider]

I agree with the general thrust of Hobbitron's critique: You don't need to duplicate specific Units, but in any given "target category", you need to have at least a couple of things. If you're not putting at least three or so things in the air, for instance, I don't think I'd bother at all, just try to flood the board and deal with flyers via Board Control.

 

I also second Fluger's question about the Toxin Sacs. Stripping off those and the Wings from the Tyrant gets you quite a lot of Points to play with.

 

Consider Hive Commander to Outflank one of those Hormagaunt Broods. Use the Comms Relay to hold them off the board as long as possible, so they hopefully come in to grab an Objective after you've managed to get some Synapse up front and disrupt your Opponent's backfield a bit.

 

Also maybe think about the Miasma Cannon on the Tärv. Lets her still contribute while hanging back a bit if you need to control your own backfield.

[fluger]

I keep meaning to ask this, why Tarv?  (also, I have no idea how to add umlauts).  

[WestRider]

It goes back to when the 5th Ed Dex first leaked. One of the Mods over on The Tyranid Hive got annoyed at everyone going nuts about them, and set up the swear filter so it would change "tervigon" to "duck". So we had to come up with creative misspellings to not be talking about ducks. The letters 'e' and 'ä' are pronounced the same in German, so I went that way. Eventually, one of the other Mods changed the swear filter back, but by that time, I was spelling it that way out of habit.

[fluger]

How do you do that though?  

[WestRider]

On a Mac, it's Option-u, and then the vowel you want under the umlaut. No idea how to do it on a Windows machine. The only times I had to do it on a Windows computer, I was in Germany, and the keyboards there have it as a simpler option, because it's a regular thing there.

[Munkie]

How do you do that though?  

 

http://desktoppub.about.com/cs/finetypography/ht/umlaut.htm

 

That's what I found and it works. The usual Ctr;+Shift+: method doesn't work on here, unfortunately

[Guest]

http://desktoppub.about.com/cs/finetypography/ht/umlaut.htm

 

That's what I found and it works. The usual Ctr;+Shift+: method doesn't work on here, unfortunately

Oh, wow. Neat!

-Pax

[Psilence]

Grats on the little one hobb :)

[fluger]

äh HÄ!!!

[Last_Bullet]

Hiding the Prime gives my Carnifex's synapse and denies my opponent Warlord (in theory).  I would decline challenges more often than not I think, sergeants yes, bad news melee monsters No.

 

Poison on the Carnifex's is because that units biggest weakness is getting bogged down with fearless mobs.  I will be hitting on 4's so I need every hit to kill.  Re-rolling 1's, thus "ensuring" kills, is worth the 30 point investment.  30 points is only 6 hormugaunts, 2.5 space marines, 2 power weapons...

 

I am concerned with the Flyrant as well.  Hes an investment in points any way you look at it and Guard are extra wounds for him.  I am defiantly focusing on melee with this army (I know 6th ed is Shooting is King) so I have wings on him so he gets stuck in faster.  I dont see him being in swoop mode often but I think he will need to vector strike from time to time.  The wings are literally an expensive jump pack.

 

I like Trygons but I dont know if hes better than the Mawloc now.  He shoots a bunch and he doesnt mishap and hes a better fighter.  Shadows of the warp as well.

 

The plan is to have the Mawloc and Trygon pop up turn 2 and the Flyrant should be able to charge then as well.  So the end of my turn 2 big nasties are in your deployment zone, the tyrant is (or has) attacked/killed something and you still have 3 Carnifexs that will be on you turn 3.  Is that enough target saturation?

 

I was also thinking about Miasma Cannon but on the Trygon Prime as they can take bio-artifacts and he can shoot both weapons when he jumps out.  AP 4, 2+ poison on frakking Tau....

[WestRider]

Do note that taking the Miasma Cannon on a Trygon Prime will cost him an Attack, because it replaces a pair of ScyTals.

 

Toxin Sacs on the Fexen, to me, would be a place to trim if it'll get the Points to take an entire extra Unit, ideally one that could tag-team with them and help bail them out of Tarpits.

 

Edit: Also consider the Maw Claw on the Tyranid Prime with the Fexen. Once he kills something with it, he gains Preferred Enemy, which spreads to his Unit, allowing them to re-roll 1s to Hit and Wound.

[Last_Bullet]

Would some Warriors be better or more Gaunts?

 

Tyrant will likely be ruled that they can not leave Guards once they join.  So I am likely thinking of dumping 1 guard (since they are just extra wounds anyways).

 

The Maw Claw is in challenges right?  I dont see anyone letting the Prime get an easy kill and Im not going to beat a melee monster with a 2+ save.

[WestRider]

Nope, the Maw Claw kicks in as soon as he kills any Model with it. If it were just Challenges, it would suck, but as it stands, it's cheap enough and probably useful often enough that I think it's worth a try. It also kicks in instantly, so if he kills something at I5, the Fexen will benefit by the time their I2 step rolls around.

 

I'd probably go with more Gaunts of some sort rather than Warriors, since you're pretty solid on Synapse, and Warriors are borderline enough that you pretty much need to be squeezing every drop of value out of them to make them worthwhile. Maybe Gargoyles, they're one of the best Screening Units in the Game, and the potential for Blind can make them pretty threatening.