Guest Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Is this site legal? Never seen a FW discount site, so I'm suspicious. I found a copyright note, but nothing about these being GW products or not. -Pax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swan-of-War Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Recasters - buy with care (but let me know if they turn out legit!) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Recasters - buy with care (but let me know if they turn out legit!) Looks like they've got a handful of original pieces (or perhaps copies from elsewhere). I'm liking the Thousand Sons converstion kit for terminaotrs: http://www.forgeworld-discount.com/products/items/1/Exclusiveminiatures/348/ThousandSons-Terminatorconversionkit.html And I think the alternate Khan sculpt is funny: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimThom Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Posting this site is like posting links to download books for free. IMHO. I am not saying I have no forged world stuff, posting websites just seems wrong. Jim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathonicus Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 This website is registered in Hong Kong, so yeah, these guys are most likely recasters acting with impunity due to their location. So Paxmiles, the site is probably illegal but they just don't care because, hey, China. As much as I dislike GW practices these days, I dislike stealing the work of other artists and making a profit off of it even more. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingpin Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Looks like they've got a handful of original pieces (or perhaps copies from elsewhere). I'm liking the Thousand Sons converstion kit for terminaotrs: http://www.forgeworld-discount.com/products/items/1/Exclusiveminiatures/348/ThousandSons-Terminatorconversionkit.html And I think the alternate Khan sculpt is funny: The chibi marines are actually from this site http://legendarion.com/other.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBeadle Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 Buying recasted products is theft. I've heard a lot of different arguments (read: justifications) for it, but calling a turd a rose doesn't make it smell better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuliusRedwings Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 Buying recasted products is theft. I've heard a lot of different arguments (read: justifications) for it, but calling a turd a rose doesn't make it smell better. It does if you coat it in varnish and make jewerly out of it... ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 Buying recasted products is theft. I've heard a lot of different arguments (read: justifications) for it, but calling a turd a rose doesn't make it smell better. Sort of. I wouldn't call it stealing to knowingly purchase stollen goods, but I agree it isn't legal. You aren't stealing if you buy them. As for recasts of models, I'll admit, this one is grey to me. On the one hand, it does seem like the above applies to it, but on the other hand, it seems like if they cast the original, they don't have the original, they have a copy, so they are selling something they made. Anyway, site is too suspicious for me to make a purchase. I was hoping, in posting the site originally, that it was some degree of a FW clearance store or one that bought in volume and sold at lower prices, like the warstore is/was. I was also hoping that someone had already preformed a transaction and could give a review. As it seems that this isn't the case, I am a bit disappointed, though I'm very much a "better safe than sorry" type, so that's the end of my interest in this site. Though, anyone able to determine where the linked thousand sons TDA upgrade pack is originally from? I my have to do business with those guys. -Pax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munkie Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 You aren't stealing if you buy from them, but you are rewarding them monetarily for stealing. It's up to you to decide if that bothers you. At any rate, this thread probably belongs on Warpspace (and getting closer to RoC by the post), at this point. It was barely related to 40k in the first place. I like those Chibi marines though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathonicus Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 You aren't stealing if you buy from them, but you are rewarding them monetarily for stealing. It's up to you to decide if that bothers you. At any rate, this thread probably belongs on Warpspace (and getting closer to RoC by the post), at this point. It was barely related to 40k in the first place. I like those Chibi marines though! YOU belong in warpspace and I like YOUR Chibi Marine! There's a real simple test for something you find in a "grey area" : would you be cool if a random stranger was doing it to you? Or a friend of yours? The golden rule won't let you down, one way or another. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 The golden rule won't let you down, one way or another. The first time you buy your wife a Warhammer army for an anniversary/birthday/holiday, you'll learn that this statement isn't true. :( 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathonicus Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 Well, I wouldn't buy something I have no interest in for myself.... ;) Sophist. :P 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aventine Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 As much as I dislike GW practices these days, I dislike stealing the work of other artists and making a profit off of it even more. Its not like the GW artists get royalty checks based on how much their sculpt sells. That means the artists' bottom line is unaffected by whether you buy it from GW or not. From a golden rule perspective, if I were one of those artists, and I was getting the same check either way, I'd just be honored someone was going though the extra (and potentially legal) trouble just to use my work. If anything, it would make me resent (further) my corporate bosses for screwing up the price enough to make people consider doing such things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathonicus Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 I would disagree with you on that. If your employer is losing sales to illegal recasters, they are going to have a less healthy balance sheet and you as an artist are going to be in a weaker position for negotiating anything to do with your job. Conversely, if your work commands top-price at retail, and the company is healthy, chances of you getting that cost of living adjustment are a lot higher when the boss can't counter with "Sorry, we're all hurting what with the sales we're losing to Chinese rip-offs". But whatever, it's all speculative. If you can honestly say that you would have no problem with someone taking something you had worked hard on (for your employer or for yourself), copying it, and selling it for their own profit, then yeah, you should have no problem buying from a recaster. It's all very personal, really. I've had something I worked hard on at my work ripped off before. Did it affect my paycheck? No. Did I resent the hell out of the folks who took about 4 months of working overtime 6-7 days a week, covered up our logo and contact info, and reissued as their own? You bet! I have a suspicion that most other creative types are like that. YMMV. (Ok Munkie, now I have probably thoroughly derailed this!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBeadle Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 It is illegal to copy another manufacturers prodcut and sell it for your own profit for a very simple reason, its unethical. I've heard all the justifications before on this in previous threads, and they are weak. Regardless of how much a person hates GW Forgeworld and their prices, regardless if wether money goes to the artist or the company who owns the originals, to take anothers intellectual property without permission and copy it for your own profit is morally bankrupt. This is why I do not keep stolen mp3s or movies as well. It has become so common that people think nothing of it anymore, but making stealing popular dosen't transform it into ethical behavior. I'll leave it alone now. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 This is why I do not keep stolen mp3s or movies as well. I too don't keep them, I delete them after I watch them, if I didn't stream them from a site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 If you can honestly say that you would have no problem with someone taking something you had worked hard on (for your employer or for yourself), copying it, and selling it for their own profit, then yeah, you should have no problem buying from a recaster. For me, I do honestly have no issues if others decide they want to mass produce my inventions/art. Really just saves me the trouble investing in a means of mass production. It's also a pretty awesome form of flattery, to think that the idea I created would be so appreciated by so many. Also, if they don't attach my name to it, it means that I'm not liable if someone gets hurt with it. I will note that most of the "inventions/art" that I create has already fufilled it's intended purpose with only one created (which is often gifted to someone). My creations are also often done in a manner that would require far more effort than more conventional means. I will also note that it would be different if they were taking my physical item and preventing me from using it for my intended purpose. In example, I made some earrings for a girl (true example). She liked them very much. If someone copies them, that's good. If they mass produce them, that's also fine. If they steal them from the girl, that isn't okay. Time to break some legs.... -Pax PS: I am talking about me, not others. I very much understand that my business sense is lacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombking Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 PS: I am talking about me, not others. I very much understand that my business sense is lacking. Well here is the business end/sense of it which is how copyright is supposed to work. You do some work and plan to mass produce it. It was found long ago to make it useful to do things like that the creator was given an limited time of exclusive right to make copies/sell/whathaveyou. After that time anyone can do so. Since the GW models are works for hire GW owns the copyright not the sculptor. Anyway it used to be after say 20 or 30 years from the creation of the book, design, etc would become part of the public domain. And that is a good thing if you have a nifty thing like JMGraham's wreck markers. It would suck to find someone simply making exact copies and then undercutting his costs so it makes it hard for him to then put profits into new models and products, or even pay the mortgage. Now thanks to Disney co and Sonny Bono in 1978 (and a lot of other media players with lobbying and campaign donation money) it is life of the creator + 70 years or 95 years for a work for hire... Walt forbid Steamboat Willie falls into public domain. There are things like abandoned authorship, and screwups of notice so stuff can go public earlier. So yeah GW has exclusive rights to production for 95 years from the initial creation date (at least under US law it varies a bit by nation but the media companies are doing their best to make it world wide law for better or worse). I personally think that currently it is way too freaking long. You will have made 99.9 % any profit and then some on a work in the first 20 years give or take, after that you would have new product out there making money. Anyway it is long ugly topic and these guys are doing illegal things though nobody in China cares much about it. Hell do they even produce the original models anymore just about 30 years into the world of warhammer. Would it matter if 10 years from now someone started making their own casts of the original beakie marines? It isn't theft/stealing as that implies loss of goods and there is none. If I go to a store and shoplift a CD that is theft, physical goods are lost, but if I copy said CD from a friend the store still has the CD and not necessarily a lost sale as I may not have been able to afford purchase in the first place. Anyway it is a big area of gray gooey legal mess and I only have a basic understanding of it. Sadly the good research has shown that the at least as far as movies/music goes piracy does not seem to keep them from having bigger profits every year and the industry studies use very sketchy logic and match about what is a lost sale. Most good studies show that most people who get pirated media actually spend more real money on movies and music than those who dont. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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