Ok so I have the Aquila now

[Threejacks]

But after doing some LoS checks for the Vortex missiles I can see a substantial issue with it.

 

Assuming that LoS for firing the missiles is from the tip of one of the missiles(any one im assuming) to the target then it appears that a man size target would be too close to launch at if they were within about 25".Now this may not be much of a problem but if I ended up dealing with Deep strikers or a zerg then it could be huge.

 

Plus this is checking through the waist high spots on the battlement wall if you account for the raised parts of the walls then it limits LoS options even further man size targets will need to be 48" or more out.

 

Of course theres no issue with most vehicles and walker types.

 

Ill probably try it anyway with my Orks and keep some Cybork slashas back near it with maybe a Dread and Killa Kan guard.

 

Or put it as close to the middle of the board as I can with a big "KILL ME" sign on it!

[Lord Hanaur]

Thats kinda interesting.

[Guest]

But after doing some LoS checks for the Vortex missiles I can see a substantial issue with it.

 

Assuming that LoS for firing the missiles is from the tip of one of the missiles(any one im assuming) to the target then it appears that a man size target would be too close to launch at if they were within about 25".Now this may not be much of a problem but if I ended up dealing with Deep strikers or a zerg then it could be huge.

 

Plus this is checking through the waist high spots on the battlement wall if you account for the raised parts of the walls then it limits LoS options even further man size targets will need to be 48" or more out.

 

Of course theres no issue with most vehicles and walker types.

 

Ill probably try it anyway with my Orks and keep some Cybork slashas back near it with maybe a Dread and Killa Kan guard.

 

Or put it as close to the middle of the board as I can with a big "KILL ME" sign on it!

The current SA book prevents models on the battlements from firing emplaced weapons, as the battlements are no longer part of the building (in a manner of speaking).

 

A friend pointed something out to me in regards to this.

 

His argument is that since the models inside the aquilla are firing the vortex missiles, TLOS is drawn from their fire points. I find this a much more reasonable solution to the vortex missiles than using TLOS from the missiles themselves. The Aquilla fire points are not on all sides, so it does have blind spots, but it's much more reasonable than saying the thing can only target huge things...

-Pax

[Threejacks]

The current SA book prevents models on the battlements from firing emplaced weapons, as the battlements are no longer part of the building (in a manner of speaking).

 

A friend pointed something out to me in regards to this.

 

His argument is that since the models inside the aquilla are firing the vortex missiles, TLOS is drawn from their fire points. I find this a much more reasonable solution to the vortex missiles than using TLOS from the missiles themselves. The Aquilla fire points are not on all sides, so it does have blind spots, but it's much more reasonable than saying the thing can only target huge things...

-Pax

Yeah im sooo happy about the change to how emplaced weapons are manned...lost count of how many times ive had troops manning the quadgun on top of my bastion ran off with some cover ignoring BS shots.

 

That would make a lot of sense using the fire points though I don't see any type of targeting device on the battlements anyway and tracing LoS from a missile tip is friggen stupid!

[AbusePuppy]

Models on the battlements can fire weapons on the battlements just fine- they ARE part of the building, but when on them, you are not EMBARKED on the building. Important distinction.

 

As for the issue with the Aquilla's missiles... yeah, sadly they don't really work very well. You can probably hash out some kind of solution with your group, but RAW the missiles basically can't ever be fired.

[Threejacks]

Models on the battlements can fire weapons on the battlements just fine- they ARE part of the building, but when on them, you are not EMBARKED on the building. Important distinction.

 

As for the issue with the Aquilla's missiles... yeah, sadly they don't really work very well. You can probably hash out some kind of solution with your group, but RAW the missiles basically can't ever be fired.

If one traces from the missile tips it can indeed target stuff as I mentioned above its just much more restrictive than any other forts or vehicle models.I can clearly see that this version of this model was designed for the huge boards of Apoc.

And since the rules for resolving Vortex blast templates are the same as the barrage template rules(from the BRB) shouldn't the missle battery just be a Barrage weapon?..then its case closed:)

 

One thing I was looking up was the basic LoS rules and the "Own unit" rule, would that suffice for tracing though the battlement walls?.

 

I know..thats reaching,hehe

[WestRider]

The problem is that Buildings are treated as Vehicles for most purposes, and when drawing LoS for Vehicle-mounted Weapons, you need to draw it not just from the weapon, but in line with the weapon. There's the 45 degree arc thing, but basically by strict RAW, those Missiles can only fire at things more or less directly above the Building :P

[Lord Hanaur]

I think no reasoning person would actually go with that but sure.  This is why when the word RAW is actually invoked...usuaully...its when someone is trying to justify something absurd.  

 

PLay it as if the people using the weapon had a brain in their head, perhaps.  thats the way I'd do it.  :)

[WestRider]

I'm not saying that's how you should do it, I'm just taking potshots at GW's Rules Writing ;)

 

Really, the thing should just be Barrage.

[Guest]

The problem is that Buildings are treated as Vehicles for most purposes, and when drawing LoS for Vehicle-mounted Weapons, you need to draw it not just from the weapon, but in line with the weapon. There's the 45 degree arc thing, but basically by strict RAW, those Missiles can only fire at things more or less directly above the Building :P

I believe the GW wording is "Down the barrel of the gun" for TLOS. So far, GW really lacks TLOS rules for missiles.

-Pax

[Threejacks]

Well I think that if I want to use the missiles ill have to see if the opponent agrees on them being a barrage weapon(like they should be).That would certainly make them a bit less threatening on the turn each one fires but wouldn't affect them otherwise.

Plus the missiles on the Fortress of redemption are Barrage and arranged in a similar fashion though a smaller missile pad off course.

 

Ill just bring the cannon to use with it every time:)

[Romans832]

That is going to be hard to get someone to agree to. Barrage means they get no cover unless they're in cover, why would I agree to that if it's not listed as a barrage weapon?

[Threejacks]

That is going to be hard to get someone to agree to. Barrage means they get no cover unless they're in cover, why would I agree to that if it's not listed as a barrage weapon?

Its a D str Vortex blast..you woudnt get cover anyway actually no saves of any kind.

 

Keep in mind that due to the fact that you cant trace LoS to a target from any of the Vortex missiles in the silo(unless the target is floating above it) if it was fired as a Barrage weapon then it cant really direct hit unless of course you rolled a low scatter distance, But then again it can fire at anything on the board.

 

I know im not the only one who really wants to try out this missile battery thing but withtout GW rules clarifications on it the only way to use it is house rules.

[Guest]

A friend pointed something out to me in regards to this.

 

His argument is that since the models inside the aquilla are firing the vortex missiles, TLOS is drawn from their fire points. I find this a much more reasonable solution to the vortex missiles than using TLOS from the missiles themselves. The Aquilla fire points are not on all sides, so it does have blind spots, but it's much more reasonable than saying the thing can only target huge things...

-Pax

This is much more balanced than making it a barrage weapon (in escalation/normal play). D weapons are dangerous enough without also denying TLOS limitations. Presently they deny all saves, incur massive damage to enemies shot, and the only saving grace is TLOS limitations and inability to hit flyers if a blast/template weapon.

 

Also, that vortex special rule is the confusion. The deal is that, if fluff, the missile flys out towards the target and then explodes, but unlike a normal explosion, the blast lingers as a ball of death. The Vortex rule is not the barrage rule and I strongly think that it is intended, when it mentions removing models as per a barrage weapon, to solve issues created by the lingering blast, not the initial blast - otherwise it creates issues when the vortex marker scatters on future turns in resolving where the shot came from.

-Pax

[Threejacks]

I would be totally fine with using the fire ports too:)

 

Actually I would be fine with tracing LoS off the missle tips that would just mean that im likely launching one on a vehicle or monster anyway.

 

But for now I think ill just use the Macro Cannon and wait on the rules update that hopefully comes in the next couple of months.

[Threejacks]

  Had my first game with the Aquila last night it went well overall I think.

 

  Played against DisruptiveConduct`s Tyranid army at 2k points..kill point scenario on Hammer and Anvil deploymenmt.We had a great game going at it with two brawling armies though we pretty much spent all our time shooting at each other with only a few good scraps,hehe

 

 I ended up getting the win in Kill points with a final score of 7 to 5 at the end of turn 5..we agreed to end it there as time was running short:)

 

   In this encounter I would have to say that the Aquila was crucial in getting a victory as Im pretty sure I couldn't have achieved the results that it gave me with regular Ork units totaling the 585 pts that it cost.

 

 Without doing a full turn by turn batrep ill just list the results of each turns Aquila shots with commentary;

 

1- I was attacking so I went first he had most all of his army in ruins but we had 95% LoS on each other still.I choose to attack a unit of 2 models that were giving all of his troops an added bonus to his cover saves.I was able to kill both of the models with the first plate and didn't fire the 2nd plate at the unit as I stupidly removed the models from the first shot,durrr...ill rem that one next time.

 

 First Blood and the Aquila will probably go together a lot  one could even get 2 reliable VPs on turn one with a warlord kill or a VP yielding heavy or Fast depending on the scenario.

 

  With Orks I don't see any unit on the roster that could have reliably taken out these two very important models that were 30+" out from my lines so early in the game.

 

2-Fired on his unit of 3 Monstrous creatures each having 4 wounds...both templates hit this time and vaporized one and wounded the others.The point on this attack is that yes D is scary but only if you have less than 4 wounds,yes a 6 on the table will Vape anything but the majority of wound damage will be in the 2-3 range.

 As far as the Ork Codex goes I would have to do an assault with some hard pipe hittin Nobs or a couple of Dreads to do this kind of damage to a unit like that..that of course means positioning,surviving overwatch and getting the charge off.

 

3-I was able to shoot at his now grounded Warlord this turn which I jumped at the chance seeing that he had a Lance psyker power that wiffed in the previous turn shooting at the Aquila building(though it would have hit the Voidshield first anyway,,but I didn't rem that till later.again durrr)Forgot what the Model was but it had 3 wounds remaining and died to both plates..

 

 In this case Ork shooting from lootas and mass boys assault may have been able to deal with his Warlord but the assault would have been bloody im sure.

 

4-This turn He had a large mass of reserves that outflanked on the previous turn so I decided to try the Apoc pie plate on them shooting the Quake shell...the 15" plate scattered a small amount and ended up 2"off the board so was a miss.

 This is to be a consideration when taking this fort...that template is indeed nasty as you will see in the next turn but its quite possible for a crafty opponent to keep units near the board edge or make use of differing ruin levels with unit characters or special models in order to minimize its effects.

 

 5-Second shot at the large mass of outflankers this time only a small deviation and it remained on the board so the end result was 21 dead nids...

 

 A good Ork boy assault can do this but usually with slugga boys for the extra attack are needed..letting the grots do it from the safety of their big gun bunker is much more preferred I think.

 

 Overall im not sure if it killed its points cost but what it did do was kill the units needed for the victory.

 

 Its one of those "All Eggs in one Basket" things  and some armies would have a much easier time dealing with the AV15.Its going to be in some of my future builds for sure cant wait to try it with some IG builds.