Nurgle Plague Tower, looking for help on stats.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, peter.cosgrove said:

Steady on. Isn't the Demolisher Cannon the same thing that's on a Vindicator?

Yes. Also found on the Leman Russ Demolisher, the Baneblade, Hellhammer, and several of the FW tanks. 

7 hours ago, peter.cosgrove said:

Was thinking 1400 points/70 power level.

Sounds really bloated. What's the total profile you think justifies such a cost?

[Guest]

20 hours ago, WestRider said:

I believe the Reaver Titan had 6 Structure Points, and it's T10/W60. The Warlord has fewer Wounds than you might expect because it's T16 and has a 2+ Sv vs. the 3+ on the Warhound and Reaver.

I would probably go for T7/W60/Sv4+, 5++. Relatively easy to put Wounds on it, as Super-Heavies go, but you need to put a lot on there.

Don't forget the void shields. Most of the really expensive stuff has less wounds that you'd think because they have FW void shields (as opposed to the GW void shield generator which only grants invulnerable saves which only apply vs shooting). FW Void shields are basically invulnerable saves that apply vs normal and mortal wounds. Void shields always degrade with the model's profile. 

That Mastodon is 830pts and has only 30 wounds. But it has 5+ void shields and keywords that allow Warpsmiths to repair it. So even against melta guns, it's only taking damage 2 thirds of the time. 

That Reaver may have only 60 wounds, but it has 3+ void shields. So, in reality, it is only taking damage a third the time, making it effectively more like 180 wounds. It is notable that the Warlord, Reaver, and Warhound all lack keywords that would allow Warpsmiths or Hellwrights to repair/heal them. 

The Warhound (1500pts) has only 35 wounds, but it has a 4+ void shield save, so it effectively has 70 wounds.

[WestRider]

The 5++ Daemon Save I added on there contributes similarly to take the "effective" Wound count up to 80 following the same logic. Maybe give it Disgustingly Resilient as well.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, WestRider said:

The 5++ Daemon Save I added on there contributes similarly to take the "effective" Wound count up to 80 following the same logic. Maybe give it Disgustingly Resilient as well.

Disgustingly resilient is broken and is basically a void shield save that doesn't degrade. I strongly suggest against combining void shields and that ability. 

The invulnerable does, except that they can be denied in this edition. Either by mortal wounds, or by certain abilties that outright deny the option for invulnerable saves (That CSM deathhex psychic power, for example). But sure, with good saves the need for more wounds goes dramatically down. 

[peter.cosgrove]

so, here is kind of what I finally think will work.

70 Power Level, 1400 points

M *  WS 4  BS* S8  T*  W60 A* LD8 S 4+ 

Descending Modifiers

31-60 M6" / BS 4+ / T8

16-30 M5" / BS 5+ / T7

1-15   M4" / BS  6+ / T6

Nurgle Plague Tower is a single model equipped with 2 Demolisher Cannons, a Pus Cannon and a Plagueburst Mortar

Plagueburst Mortar 12"-48" Heavy D6   S8  / AP-2  /  D3 Damage /  Plague Weapon, This weapon can target units that are not visible to the firing unit

Demolisher Cannon 24"  /  Heavy D3  S10  / AP-3  / D6 Damage / When attacking units of 5 or more models change this weapons type to Heavy D6

Pus Cannon  18" /  Assault D6  / S6  / AP -2 / 2 Damage / Plague Weapon, This weapon automatically hits it's target

Nurgling Infestation   Melee / Melee 3D6 Attacks / S3  / AP-0 / 1 Damage

Explosion of Filth. If this model is reduced to 0 wounds before any embarked models disembark it explodes and each unit within 2D6 suffers D6 Mortal wounds. Units with Nurgle keyword are Immune.

Ramparts of Doom. Up to 10 Models embarked upon the Nurgle Plague Tower can occupy the Ramparts during the movement phase, use Psychic abilities and shoot during their shooting phase, measuring and drawing line of sight from any point on the Nurgle Plague Tower. They can do this even if even if enemy models are within 1" of  the Nurgle Plague Tower. Units shooting in this manner count as having moved if they or the Nurgle Plague Tower moved in the preceeding movement phase. In addition Aura Abilities from Models Embarked are in effect, measuring from any point on the Nurgle Plague Tower as long as the model giving the aura ability is one of the 10 models occupying the Ramparts of Doom. Models occupying the Ramparts of Doom can be targeted during both the Psychic and Shooting phases and charged during the Assault Phase. Models embarked in the Ramparts of Doom gain a cover save.

Wooden Behemoth. This unit cannot fall back, advance or charge. It can also still fire all of it's weapons even if enemy models are within 1" of it (But only the Pus Cannon can target unit's that are within 1" of it, It's other weapons must target other units.) Models occupying the Ramparts of Doom can also target units that are within 1" of this model

[Guest]

Wish I had commented on your final version before you played with it in apocalypse. 1400pts is way too much. That Ramparts of Doom rule is also very prone to abuse and should probably be replaced with Fire Point rules (allowing psychic powers and auras out of the vehicle is a mistake). Additionally, the model should have a listed strength stat, even if you plan to use that nurgling rule in melee, just because the strength score may be used by the opponent for certain abilties which target strength. Your attacks score should be listed as 3d6, while the melee weapon doesn't have a number of attacks of it's own. 

For those that weren't there, it died really quickly on turn 1 and turned out to be placed next to a bunch of non-nurgle vehicles, so it's explosion of filth was turned on Peter's forces. 

With the mentioned tweaks, the posted model should cost no more than 500pts. Even at 60 wounds, it lacks weapons AND speed AND durability to justify a higher cost. 

 

[InfestedKerrigan]

I still say run it as a Mastadon.

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

I still say run it as a Mastadon.

Lots of units it could count as, but I think Peter wanted the durability reflected in it being a wooden structure.

This game also featured the Apocalypse transport rules from 4th, which I didn't really get until Peter declared his deployment of a Juggerlord in his plague tower (yeah, khorne in the tower of nurgle....). Not a problem, as I like those rules. Just a surprise because I don't tend to think of those as being part of the apocalypse rules.