Black Templars in 6th?

[Guest]

Everyone I talk to says they're terrible, but on paper they look pretty good, what am I missing?

 

Entire army has the crusader USR which does two things, helps with runs/changes and helps with sweeps. Second USR is adamantium will, which gives light duty psychic defenses army wide. Nothing amazing, but also not lacking either. You also have the challenge bonuses, which grant characters in challenges both the rending rules and re-rolls to hit.

 

So a BT tactical sarge has two attacks with BP+CCW, 3 with the charge. Of those he re-hits every round in a challenge. Should his unit win assault, sweeps are Initiative+d3+d6 (6-13), so unit will very likely catch other marines (keeping them locked), while they might actually catch eldar or slaanesh CSM.

 

On my end, I see this as the ultimate MSU army, as you really don't need to buy power weapons if all the characters have re-rolls and rending for the challenges. Yeah, without the challenge, I don't have the re-rolls or the rending, a refused challenge is pretty useful for me, and if you can't do one at all, that doesn't impair me too much. But the idea of being able to take stock characters and still have them be threatening without upgrades is certainly appealing. Probably still want melta bombs...

 

BT have the crusader squad, which really isn't amazing, but does bring some alternative options of SM troops. First, its one of the few C:SM units that doesn't have to include a character. You've got the blob of 20-men. You can field them as a unit of PA marines at meager 5 members with both a special and a heavy weapon. You can include a character and a non-character with power weapon/fist access. Same dedicated transport access plus dedicated LRC. Drawback to this unit, as I see it, is only a lack of the combat squad rule. Cost for Crusader squad members is the same 14pts per marine, while neophytes are 1pt cheaper than scout marines.

 

I will note that despite the anti-psyker fluff, I don't see present rules that prevent battle brother psykers. Even a level 1 psyker attached to a BT crusader blob makes that unit have a minimum of 4+ to deny (psyker+adamantium will+normal 6+).  Nothing amazing, but that's a pretty good save against things like enfeeble or hallucinate.

 

I do see some nasty potential with a max crusader squad an Azrael attached. Basically the same threat as the IG blob, but better base saves, higher toughness, and maybe a third as many guys.

 

I'm not impressed with any of the BT special characters. Not horrible once you factor in the BT chapter tactics or auto-matic warlord traits, but they aren't anything amazing either.

[TW_Haines]

I am new to the game so I take my words with a grain of salt.

I like the BT, a nice killy chapter master running a shield eternal, thunderhammer and art armour. Looks like a beast to me.

 

I think its not that there not good, It is that the white scar are better so are the Iron hands in allot of ways. Rules that help in assault, are looked down on as the current meta is vary shooty. So assault marines that are not on bikes with hit and run just dont draw allot of love. Crusade squads are going to need to weather the round of shooting after disembarking a transport. Then eat over watch, finally there is the assault there good at. all in all a fun army but not the most competitive one out there.

 

I am making a black templar army my self. I always take the challenge as Im a fluffy kind of guy. I build my army to assault, so I run my rhinos full steam tell thay pop. That gets my troops where there needed. I run land raiders also full of terms or honour guard with a char.

 

As for the named guys in a BT list looks at high marshal ............"needs a better name" his rules for the army are real good for a assualt army. He is lacking in a weapon that has ap, so he is a utility not a beat stick, making his a point sink in a lot of lists.

 

Anyway that is my take on BT. A lot of fun, but not gona will the scary lists that run at a high level tournament.

[Gorgosaurusrex]

I have been enjoying the Crusader Squads. I take 5 in a Rhino with a Plasmagun and a Multi-Melta. Not bad for 130 points, especially when you take 5 of them :P

[Munkie]

I'm curious about big crusader squads with inquisutors attached. 4+ DTW is pretty nifty against misfortune and the like. Prescience on those squads would also really make the high model count go a long way.

[cadaver2k]

Bring a BT list on Wednesday and we will play, i am sure joel can match us up.

[Guest]

Bring a BT list on Wednesday and we will play, i am sure joel can match us up.

Well, for me, present project to getting those DA up to par. I've been considering BT for allies to my DA, which would be fine, but no allies this month at GG.

[WestRider]

In addition to the possibilities of Crusader Spam, I've been thinking of them in terms of MSU, possibly Razorspam. They're the only Chapter that can take both a Special and a Heavy in a 5 man Troops Squad. Maybe take one or two bigger Squads (probably a good place to stick an HQ, since they can't just take a cheap Librarian) or Ally in IG/INQ to get the Scoring numbers up.

[Sylvos]

Here is what I've been building too for my Black Templar list.

2000 Pts - The Ghoul Stars Crusade

 

HQ: The Emperor's Champion (1#, 140 pts)

1 The Emperor's Champion, 140 pts ( Warlord)

 

HQ: Terminator Captain (1#, 185 pts)

1 Terminator Captain, 185 pts (Storm Shield; Melta Bombs)

1 The Burning Blade

 

Troops: Crusader Squad (11#, 460 pts)

9 Crusader Squad, 460 pts (Chainsword x8; Meltagun; Power Fist

1 Sword Brother (Infantry (Character);  Bolt Pistol; Power Sword x1)

1 Land Raider Crusader  (Multi-melta)

 

Troops: Crusader Squad (10#, 160 pts) 

10 Crusader Squad, 160 pts  Bolt Pistol x10; Boltgun x1; Chainsword x8; Flamer; Power Axe) (They go in Storm Raven)

 

Elite: Terminator Assault Squad (6#, 465 pts)

4 Terminator Assault Squad, 465 pts ( Lightning Claws (pair) x3; Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x1)

1 Terminator Sergeant Lightning Claws (pair)

1 Land Raider Crusader (Multi-melta)

 

Elite: Contemptor Mortis Pattern Dreadnought (IA) (1#, 215 pts)

1 Contemptor Mortis Pattern Dreadnought (IA), 215 pts ( Kheres Assault Cannon (x2); Cyclone Missile Launcher)

 

Heavy Support: Stormraven Gunship (1#, 200 pts)

1 Stormraven Gunship, 200 pts ((; Twin-Linked Lascannon; Twin-Linked Multi-melta)

 

Elite: Contemptor Pattern Dreadnought (IA) (1#, 175 pts)

1 Contemptor Pattern Dreadnought (IA), 175 pts (Dreadnought CCW with Storm Bolter; Twin-Linked Heavy Flamer)

 

Composition Report:

HQ: 2 (1 - 2)

Elite: 3 (0 - 3)

Troops: 2 (2 - 6)

Fast: 0 (0 - 3)

Heavy: 1 (0 - 3)

Fort: 0 (0 - 1)

 

Total Roster Cost: 2000

 

Created with Army Builder® - Try it for free at http://www.wolflair.com

 

 

 

Goal here is to get into assaults and battle it out.

 

For Black Templars do not wear the symbol of the Emperor on their chest, they ARE the symbol of the Emperor!

[AbusePuppy]

I don't think BT are terrible, although their Tactic is a bit underwhelming overall. The Emperor's Champion is pretty bad, though- he's basically a Captain with a worse statline and higher price. Crusader Squads are actually quite good- the ability to get twenty bodies, take heavy/special at minimum size, and swap for BP/CCW are all very nice things to have. Crusader is a decent little bonus for them, insuring you get in the Sweeps and helping cross the field a bit faster.

 

For a more casual list, I think they work just fine. A maxed blob of dudes or two isn't that expensive and if you put a Chaplain in there- one of the few times a Chaplain is actually warranted- they become a surprisingly-strong fighting unit. I don't think MSU is a great plan for them due to other factors, but taking some backfield scoring units with special/heavy isn't a bad plan.

 

And yeah, you can't take psykers in your primary with them, but you absolutely can in your allies.

[InfestedKerrigan]

And yeah, you can't take psykers in your primary with them, but you absolutely can in your allies.

 

That's a nifty/interesting change.

[Munkie]

For a more casual list, I think they work just fine. A maxed blob of dudes or two isn't that expensive and if you put a Chaplain in there- one of the few times a Chaplain is actually warranted- they become a surprisingly-strong fighting unit.

 

An Inq would be way better than the chappy for considerably less. If that fluff contradiction rankles you, however, disregard.

 

I've never finalized a list, but I think they'd do well with a pressure/board control list. At least 2 turn 1 drop pods deep into enemy deployment, then use huge chunks of crusaders to fill up the areas they want to flee to.

[WestRider]

I was fooling around with lists last night, and found out that this fits in 1500 perfectly:

Chaplain, Meltabombs

10 Initiates, 4 Neophytes, Meltagun, PowerFist, Sword Bro with Power Sword/Meltabombs, Land Raider Crusader with Multi-Melta

5x5 Initiates, Lascannon, Plasmagun, upgunned Razorback

 

I wouldn't take it to a Tournament, probably, but against some of my usual Opponent's lists, I think it could be pretty fun.