Mid vs Late FoW?

[Atules]

Hey fellas, 

      What is the difference in gameplay between late and mid war? Was thinking of getting back in but not quite sure where to start. Also, is mid war the most popular at this point? Thanks!

[phyfor88]

V4 made many changes. Mid war Africa is well balanced and the game is different in several ways. The streamlined many of the special  case rules, there used to be around 100. They now just give an ability to certain units with the use of cards Still a great game just some shifts in game play.  

[Atules]

Cool cool, it seems like a lot of people are playing in Mid war at the moment. Is that true for the Portland area?

[barca]

5 hours ago, Atules said:

... is mid war the most popular at this point?...

Yes, locally, mid-war is the most popular.

• Our Thursday evening sessions  at Guardian Games (GG) usually are Mid-war (with some Team Yankee)
• The Flames tournament at ENFILADE (SAT MAY 26)  will be 16-24 gamers competing in the mid-war period.
• The stock on the shelves (at Guardian Games) is mostly mid-war and at Oregon City Geeks and Games the BF stock is only Mid-war (plus some Team Yankee)

By prior arrangement, we can arrange for a Late-War game, but not everyone in our group has the Unit Cards or the book for that.

And battlefront's plans for later this year include releases for mid-war, Eastern Front.

[Atules]

Cool, What time do you guys start on Thursday?

[barca]

17 hours ago, Atules said:

Cool, What time do you guys start on Thursday?

between 6:00 and 6:30 PM

[ZEKE]

From the tankers point of view, this is generally how the different periods  go.

Early War - lots of BAILED out tanks due to weapons systems having a higher firepower.  Because of the lots of bailed out tanks on the table, Instead of being outright killed, most tanks seem to be sitting in the penalty box (bailed) for a while then get back in the game.

Mid War - probably the most balanced of all the periods

Late War - lots of insta-kills.  With the higher AT numbers and the Lower firepower, things go poof more easily.

 

TEAM YANKEE - insane amounts of insta-kills.  "I WAS winning ... and then I lost 5 tanks."

 

As for the new V4 rules,  this new MidWar stuff is born out of the V4 system, while Late War is currently using conversion rules.  So, V4 will feel kinda glitchy.

[Atules]

Aaaah, gotcha. Thanks!

[barca]

This is thread where we get together to talk about the Thursday night casual games: http://www.ordofanaticus.com/topic/209741-thursdays-gameplay-at-guardian-games-2018/

 

[barca]

58 minutes ago, ZEKE said:

As for the new V4 rules,  this new MidWar stuff is born out of the V4 system, while Late War is currently using conversion rules.  So, V4 will feel kinda glitchy.

I mostly agree with that, but would modify as follows: Since Mid-War was the test-bed for v4, that period plays smoothly, while Late-War "V4 will feel kinda glitchy"

[Souldier3]

As Zeke pointed out Early and Late war use conversion rules while mid war uses the straight forward V4 rules. For me its just easier to use books and cards where everything is spelled out plainly and I don't need to do things like subtract points for redundant teams durring list construction or reference the rule book for a converted AT and Firepower for my artillery.

That is the main reason I play mid war. Plus its the period that Battlefront is currently releasing product for so I took the opportunity to collect kit to run Americans in mid war.

I've been enjoying V4 mid war very much.

[Atules]

@barcathanks for showing me around yesterday! I really enjoyed the wealth of information you presented about the game and the gaming group in general. Really excited to get back into the game again! What is a good list you mentioned to start off with the Afrika corp? A single tiger and ...

[phyfor88]

Tigers are very different bird. Only a very few things can damage them. Infantry are still the best selection. Armor companies can do very well now too. Generally if someone wants to play with a tiger it is bets to inform your opponent before hand. I would have no issue with it, but some may want a heads up. I run a panzer III formation with 2 PZIII in hq and 2 platoons of PZIII all with no upgrades. I add a rifle platoon and scouts (very good and very different this edition) then add whatever I am in the mood for. This force is well balanced and forgiving of a mistake or bad dice rolls.

 

[barca]

On 4/6/2018 at 4:54 AM, Atules said:

@barca...What is a good list you mentioned to start off with the Afrika corp? A single tiger and ...

Tiger list @71 points is small, but that is the point level our ENFILADE competitors are using in April and May. Built around an Africa Rifle Company Formation:

FORCE #1 (71 pts): Afrika Korps - Formation = Africa Rifle Company
 1 Tiger, 1 Escort tank, Tank Hunter platoon has 3 guns, 2 scout troops, 2x Rifle Platoons
Africa Rifle Company HQ (p.28) - 2x MP40 SMG Team (2 pts)
Africa Rifle Platoon (p.28) - 4x MG34 Teams, 1x 2.8cm anti-tank rifle (7 pts)
- Add sMG34 HMG - 1x sMG34 Team (1 pts)
Africa Rifle Platoon (p.28) - 4x MG34 Teams, 1x 2.8cm anti-tank rifle (7 pts)
5cm Tank Hunter Platoon (p.29) - 3x 5cm guns (12 pts)
Tiger Heavy Tank Platoon (p.30) - 1x Tiger (8.8cm) (29 pts)
- Escort Tank per Tiger - 1x Panzer III (7.5cm) (8 pts)
Sd Kfz 231 Heavy Scout Troop (p.33) - 2x Sd Kfz 231 (2cm) (2 pts)
Sd Kfz 221 & 222 Light Scout Troop (p.33) - 2x Sd Kfz 222 (2cm) & 2x Sd Kfz 221 (MG) (3 pts)

FORCE #2 (71 pts): Afrika Korps - Formation = Africa Rifle Company
 1 Tiger, No Escort tank, reduce Tank Hunter platoon to 2 guns, 1 scout troop, 2x Rifle Platoons, Add Pz III platoon
Africa Rifle Company HQ (p.28) - 2x MP40 SMG Team (2 pts)
Africa Rifle Platoon (p.28) - 4x MG34 Teams, 1x 2.8cm anti-tank rifle (7 pts)
- Add sMG34 HMG - 1x sMG34 Team (1 pts)
Africa Rifle Platoon (p.28) - 4x MG34 Teams, 1x 2.8cm anti-tank rifle (7 pts)
5cm Tank Hunter Platoon (p.29) - 2x 5cm guns (8 pts)
Tiger Heavy Tank Platoon (p.30) - 1x Tiger (8.8cm) (29 pts)
Sd Kfz 221 & 222 Light Scout Troop (p.33) - 2x Sd Kfz 222 (2cm) & 1x Sd Kfz 221 (MG) (2 pts)
Panzer III Tank Platoon (p.19) - 3x Panzer III (short 5cm) (15 pts)

Tiger Lists @ 85 points are more robust:

FORCE #3 (85 pts): Afrika Korps - Formation = Africa Rifle Company:
 1 Tiger, 1 Escort tank, Tank Hunter platoon has 3 guns, 1 scout troop, 2x Rifle Platoons, Pz III platoon
Africa Rifle Company HQ (p.28) - 2x MP40 SMG Team (2 pts)
Africa Rifle Platoon (p.28) - 4x MG34 Teams, 1x 2.8cm anti-tank rifle (7 pts)
- Add sMG34 HMG - 1x sMG34 Team (1 pts)
Africa Rifle Platoon (p.28) - 4x MG34 Teams, 1x 2.8cm anti-tank rifle (7 pts)
- Add sMG34 HMG - 1x sMG34 Team (1 pts)
5cm Tank Hunter Platoon (p.29) - 3x 5cm guns (12 pts)
Tiger Heavy Tank Platoon (p.30) - 1x Tiger (8.8cm) (29 pts)
- Escort Tank per Tiger - 1x Panzer III (7.5cm) (8 pts)
Sd Kfz 221 & 222 Light Scout Troop (p.33) - 2x Sd Kfz 222 (2cm) & 2x Sd Kfz 221 (MG) (3 pts)
Panzer III Tank Platoon (p.19) - 3x Panzer III (short 5cm) (15 pts)

FORCE #4 (85 pts): Afrika Korps - Formation = Africa Rifle Company (Artillery instead of Panzer III)
 1 Tiger, 1 Escort tank, Tank Hunter platoon has 3 guns, 1 scout troop, 2x Rifle Platoons, Howitzer battery with Pz II OP
Africa Rifle Company HQ (p.28) - 2x MP40 SMG Team (2 pts)
Africa Rifle Platoon (p.28) - 4x MG34 Teams, 1x 2.8cm anti-tank rifle (7 pts)
- Add sMG34 HMG - 1x sMG34 Team (1 pts)
Africa Rifle Platoon (p.28) - 4x MG34 Teams, 1x 2.8cm anti-tank rifle (7 pts)
5cm Tank Hunter Platoon (p.29) - 3x 5cm guns (12 pts)
Tiger Heavy Tank Platoon (p.30) - 1x Tiger (8.8cm) (29 pts)
- Escort Tank per Tiger - 1x Panzer III (7.5cm) (8 pts)
Sd Kfz 221 & 222 Light Scout Troop (p.33) - 2x Sd Kfz 222 (2cm) & 2x Sd Kfz 221 (MG) (3 pts)
10.5cm Artillery Battery (p.34) - 4x 10.5cm howitzers (14 pts)
Panzer II OP Observation Post (p.34) - 1x Panzer II OP (2 pts)

At lists larger than 85 points, you can probably afford some of the Command Cards for Tigers.

As for Phyfor88's comment about warning your opponent ahead of time about the tiger, the British 17-pdr Anti-tank gun was used against the Tiger in Tunisia:

https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2017/07/31/1725-pounder-pheasant-tunisia-1943/

• Brit 17-pdr gun AT 12 vs Tiger front armor 9.
• US M10's guns have the same AT:  12 vs Tiger front armor 9.

There is a range difference:

• The Tiger's 88 = 40"
• 17 pdr Gun = 36"
• M10 gun = 36"

[Atules]

Appreciate the input! Yeah, I’m going to avoid using the Tiger for now. I can certainly see people not wanting to play against a list with one if they’re really powerful. Is there a situation where unlesss a company doesn’t have the appropriate counter that it’s impossible to play against?

[barca]

18 hours ago, Atules said:

Appreciate the input! Yeah, I’m going to avoid using the Tiger for now. I can certainly see people not wanting to play against a list with one if they’re really powerful. Is there a situation where unlesss a company doesn’t have the appropriate counter that it’s impossible to play against?

If a Mid-War American Force does not include M10 Tank Destroyers, or a British force does not have either 17 pdr AT guns or Churchill III's, then they will have a hard time dealing with a tiger. The armor on the Churchill III is close to a Tiger, but the Churchill's gun is only AT10.

Two Sherman platoons could potentially attack a Tiger from two angles to get flank shots. That takes skill and maybe the right terrain.

IMHO, in mid-war, taking on a tiger could require the opponent to commit about 1.5  times as many points as the cost of the tiger to deal with the tiger.

In mid-war, MY the recommended tactics when facing a tiger are:

• Hide your armor from the tiger (smoke, terrain, speed, etc)
• Focus on a morale win (defeat the formation), or
• Focus on the objective less well-protected: Use infantry to seize an objective.

[phyfor88]

Best tactic is to ignore the tiger and go for objectives if possible. If no objective kill everything else and the tiger goes away because it is always a support option in the desert.

[Atules]

Picked up the Rommel's Afrika Corp box, SD KFZ 231 box, and a Africa Rifle platoon. Should be a good start for a mixture of units. The primer I bought is on back order. May have to play them bare for a little while until it is available.

[barca]

Assembly guides:

Pz III - - https://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5514

Pz IV - - https://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5509

8.8 cm Hvy AA: - - https://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5520

Sd Kfz 231 Heavy Scout Troop - - https://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5640

Afrika Korps Rifle Platoon - - https://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5590

Components in the Afrika Korps Rifle Platoon blister pack - - https://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5591

Battlefront Flames of War YouTube channel, for rules, painting guides, etc. - - https://www.youtube.com/user/flamesofwar

[Atules]

Thanks!

[ZEKE]

On 4/19/2018 at 8:47 PM, Atules said:

Picked up the Rommel's Afrika Corp box, SD KFZ 231 box, and a Africa Rifle platoon. Should be a good start for a mixture of units. The primer I bought is on back order. May have to play them bare for a little while until it is available.

I tend to buy Krylon - Automobile Primer - Grey.  It is fine enough for 15mm without becoming too coarse. Can get it anywhere for about $5 a can. But, then you add in an extra step of base coating the proper color on top of the primer. This works fine for me cause I do all different kinds of forces that get different colored base coats (german, US, russian, team yankee, french, etc.)

 

A friend of mine bought a can of the paint/primer that BF is always touting about.  1 can gave an even base coat of the proper color over enough TeamYankee Russian tanks for a 100 pt list.  So it's not a bad deal there too. If you are only working 1 specific force, this method might be best.