Which Lizardmen list for OFCC

[ClassicFlava]

R u forgetting about thunderstomp? That's 7+d6 attacks. That's going to do more damage to the swordsmen than they will to the bastiladon. Any elite infantry will tear it to shreds, but they should since it is only 150pts. For its point value it does just fine in combat.

[HeroZero]

Also stubborn ld 10 (because seriously lizard man) 2+ armor save..On average you lose every single round thanks to thunderstomp.

So back up off the basiliodon in combat, its actually a fairly competent tarpit.

[MexicanNinja]

What's the bastilidon S value and T value?

[HeroZero]

Strength 4 toughness 5. Against str3 chuckle heads its going to win more often then not.

Don't forget the skinks, club attack, 3 base attacks, and d6 thunderstomps.

It tarpits like a mofo.

[lustriangod2]

Yeah, the Bastiladon is quite the war beast.

[MexicanNinja]

It may be able to hold, but damage output isn't anything to write about.  That thing is a weak steamtank.  S4...meh, it still needs to hit (besides thunderstomps), it's only a -1modifier to armour saves for the attacks, skinks make me laugh in close combat.

 

Again, I will agree that it has the potential to hold a unit in place; however, that thing is weak weak weak for damage output.  How many wounds does it have?

 

I would put my money on a unit of 30 halbediers over the bastilidon in a 1-v-1 fight.

[HeroZero]

4 wounds.

It's also 150pts. Which is really cheap.

 

Halberds

Max 9 attacks, 4.5 hits. 1.5 wounds. .5 get through after saves.

 

Bastilodon

2 base attacks. 1 hit, .66 wound through.

Tail hit, .5 hits, .84 wound through.

4 skinks, 2 hits, 1 wound, .84 after save.

Thunderstomp 3.5 hits average. 2 wounds through.

 

By my quick math that's 4.5 dead Halberds, to .5 wounds on the bastilodon.

 

Tie combat assuming ranks+std.

Push to musician.

Stubborn on a cold blooded ten with reroll is near 100%.

 

Not bad for 150 pts.

[MexicanNinja]

That's cool with the math; however, all that goes out the window once the dice start rolling.  I have yet to see a unit of halberds not in a horde formation.  Add some more attacks to the equation.

 

Like I stated, many times above, it can hold it's ground agaisnt basic infantry but a monster needs to do more than just average damage on it's own.  The save is barely much better than a stegadon and I've killed many of those things in the first round of combat with S4 or less (granted I get a ton of re-rolls for playing dark elves) so to me that thing is weak.

 

I would like to add, I never said not to take it.  I never said, it's a complete waste of points.  I never said it isn't usefull.

 

 

Just to clarify, once more, here's what I said:

 

1) It's made for a support role.  As a support role, you support units with a charge and you dont' go in for 1-v-1 match-ups.

 

2) It's great at holding BASIC infantry in place.  You start adding elite units to the equation and that thing drops pretty fast.

 

3) It doesn't produce enough damage per turn to make me respect it in combat.

 

4) It's not worth 150 points as a combat role, on it's own.  Again, I think he is purely to support and hold a unit in place.  He's not meant for damage output.

 

However, here are the 3 things I love about this model:

 

1) Cheap terror causing unit on your flank.  This is were most of your opponents low LD stuff is which is not supported by a BSB.

2) 2+ armour save.  Again, put it on the flank and most of your opponents chaff will be weak against it

3) It's only 150 points.

[HeroZero]

So I've updated my list quite a bit I feel this has a lot better fun factor, diversity, and competitive edge without being a WAAC list.

 

Without much further ado.

 

Slann Mage Priest

Lvl 4, Battle Standard Bearer, Standard of Discipline

Cube of Darkness

Lore of Heavens

 

Saurus Scar Veteran

Great Weapon, Armor of Destiny

Mounted on Carnosaur with Loping Stride

 

Skink Priest

Level 2 Heavens

Dispel Scroll

 

30 Saurus Warriors

Full Command

 

22 Skink Cohort + 2 Kroxigor

Standard Bearer, Musician

 

10 Skink Skirmishers, Javelin Shield

10 Skink Skirmishers, Javelin Shield

10 Skink Skirmishers, Javelin Shield

 

26 Temple Guard

Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame

 

5 Chameleon Skinks

5 Chameleon Skinks

 

Ancient Stegadon, Sharpened Horns, Engine of the Gods

Ancient Stegadon, Sharpened Horns, Engine of the Gods

 

So Im looking for opinions and feedback.

[lustriangod2]

So Mexican Ninja, why do you consistently bash every Lizardman unit that someone talks about? Wether it be an Ethereal Slann, skinks, or a Bastiladon. I'm sorry that they don't meet your expectations. I'm sorry that they are not as cheese as the warlocks that the Dark Elves have. Or maybe not as sissy as the new dwarves are. Hero as well as others have produced information on units and character builds that actually work. Either for their point cost or their role in the grand scheme of their army tactics. I have yet to see anything but mud slinging on peoples love for their Lizardman army.

[Munkie]

At risk of entering the Bastilladon debate, it has been mentioned several times that it is stubborn. It is not. Just Ld 6 Cold Blooded. I haven't used it yet, so I can't speak to its effectiveness (or at least cost effectiveness), but I don't think it'll work as a tarpit. Against rank and file, it doesn't have the damage output to counteract the static res. A moot point now with the current list, however.

 

I like that new list quite a bit actually. Got some monsters, got some combat blocks, and got a good but not overly indulgent magic phase. I don't like engines of the gods though. Not that the super blowguns are awesome, but they come into play now and again. Even if engines come into play, I just don't see them mattering so much that you'll be thrilled you spent 100 extra points on it.

 

The only other thing that stands out (and this isn't a criticism, just a curiosity) why the skrox block? What's the benefit of running a bigger block as opposed to 2 units of 10 skinks and a krox?

[HeroZero]

@munkie

Bastilodons arent stubborn, but a buff monster outside the generals IP/BSB isnt going to happen ever. Its pseudo stubborn. I should have clarified.

To answer your question: the big skrox unit looks cooler than two little ones, and gives me a viable building unit for watchtower liek scenarios. Really its 95% looks becuase i hate dinky little units that are lopsided.

I like EOTG for the 6+ ward. Its not much but surprisingly with spears on my suarus and my TG having halberds if i save a few guys its paying off. Besides -2 to cast Lore of Heavens is kinda neat too with its ridiculously high casting values.

Plus I really want to pull off the chaff begone turn with the pulse.

[MexicanNinja]

So Mexican Ninja, why do you consistently bash every Lizardman unit that someone talks about? Wether it be an Ethereal Slann, skinks, or a Bastiladon. I'm sorry that they don't meet your expectations. I'm sorry that they are not as cheese as the warlocks that the Dark Elves have. Or maybe not as sissy as the new dwarves are. Hero as well as others have produced information on units and character builds that actually work. Either for their point cost or their role in the grand scheme of their army tactics. I have yet to see anything but mud slinging on peoples love for their Lizardman army.

Maybe my typing is being taken out of context.  I don't think they don't work, and I don't think they are horrible.  I have stated my dislikes and likes about the bastilidon.  In every game I've played against lizardmen, with the current army book, the Slaan has been the least influential model on the table.  Take it how you would.  It's my opinions and nothing all.

[Munkie]

Still confused. How does being near the general make him pseudo-stubborn? If he's stuck in combat with a full block of infantry could be starting off with -5 res against him (3 ranks, banner, charge). Ld 5 re-rollable is okay, but nothing like stubborn. Relying on str 4 to dig out of that deficit is definitely a gamble.

[rudra34]

Are bastidons a single choice with different options for what they carry, or are they two different unit entries?  They may not be the best thing in the world, but having an army with 3 of each would be pretty badass.

[MexicanNinja]

I like the solar engine.  The snake thing is well....yeah.

[Munkie]

I do love the Solar Engine on paper. +1 init is pretty sweet, it puts us on par with bottom tier initiative armies which ain't bad at all. Plus using a giant crystal to focus a laser and fry people like ants on a sidewalk is awesome. I definitely intend to run one when I can justify the purchase.

 

The snake one isn't good for much, but it is Indiana Jones' worst nightmare.

[ratrek]

Are bastidons a single choice with different options for what they carry, or are they two different unit entries?  They may not be the best thing in the world, but having an army with 3 of each would be pretty badass.

 

Same entry and then you choose which option.