WoW Escalation League list ideas: 4th List

[Lyraeus]

3 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Death Skulls make infantry objective secured, but your list doesn't seem to have any infantry...Other aspects seem useful.

List does solve the previous issues regarding flyers and leadership. Seems really low model count. Considering the low model count, doesn't seem particularly durable. What's the plan if the opponent survives turn 1....?

That is the greatest question. It all depends on mission and deployment. The vehicles can mess with most things but I suspect we will see many Primaris Hellblaster teams. 

 

This is one of those lists I am not sure what will happen and fully expect to be tabled by T3 at the latest 

[Ish]

Primaris Hellblasters are ridiculously efficient for their points... But Primaris Marines don't really have anything other than Hellblasters for fire support.

I really which I had access to some sort of "Primaris Devastator Squad" with Heavy Bolters, Missile Launchers, and Lascannons. I might order some from a third-party bits maker and slap them on Intercessor bodies... 

[Lyraeus]

9 minutes ago, Ish said:

 

I really which I had access to some sort of "Primaris Devastator Squad" with Heavy Bolters, Missile Launchers, and Lascannons. I might order some from a third-party bits maker and slap them on Intercessor bodies... 

DO. NOT. WANT. THIS. NO!!! 

I really don't want to see W2 Devastators... Not with a base save of 2+ in cover... No. Thank. You. 

[Ish]

28 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

DO. NOT. WANT. THIS. NO!!! 

I really don't want to see W2 Devastators... Not with a base save of 2+ in cover... No. Thank. You. 

Could I at least get a heavy weapon for my Intercessor Squads? 

Primaris Marines are annoyingly mono-tasked, playing more like Imperial Aspect Warriors than Marines.

 

[Lyraeus]

17 minutes ago, Ish said:

Could I at least get a heavy weapon for my Intercessor Squads? 

Primaris Marines are annoyingly mono-tasked, playing more like Imperial Aspect Warriors than Marines.

 

You mad! You don't need Heavy Bolters you have Aggressors 😛

 

Well after listening to Dark Imperium today, yea one kind of gets the feeling that's how they were designed

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Lyraeus said:

That is the greatest question. It all depends on mission and deployment. The vehicles can mess with most things but I suspect we will see many Primaris Hellblaster teams. 

 

This is one of those lists I am not sure what will happen and fully expect to be tabled by T3 at the latest 

Does sound like you have the right attitude for the list. Should be fun.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Ish said:

Could I at least get a heavy weapon for my Intercessor Squads? 

Primaris Marines are annoyingly mono-tasked, playing more like Imperial Aspect Warriors than Marines.

 

Yeah, imperial aspect warriors. Meanwhile, Eldar are still using the same old skulpts...

4 hours ago, Ish said:

Primaris Hellblasters are ridiculously efficient for their points... But Primaris Marines don't really have anything other than Hellblasters for fire support.

I really which I had access to some sort of "Primaris Devastator Squad" with Heavy Bolters, Missile Launchers, and Lascannons. I might order some from a third-party bits maker and slap them on Intercessor bodies... 

It's called the Redemptor Dreadnought. 

And this edition is kinda wonky because the difference between a vehicle and a heavy weapon squad is very minor. 5 prim devs with 5 heavy bolters would effectively be 1 model with 10 wounds and 15 heavy bolter shots - which is quite similar to a Redemptor Dreadnought. 

I suppose you could just model a Primaris Devastator squad on the Redemptor base and give one of each redemptor weapons to each member of the squad. I mean, if you really want a heavy weapon squad instead of a mech.

[Lyraeus]

7 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Yeah, imperial aspect warriors. Meanwhile, Eldar are still using the same old skulpts...

It's called the Redemptor Dreadnought. 

And this edition is kinda wonky because the difference between a vehicle and a heavy weapon squad is very minor. 5 prim devs with 5 heavy bolters would effectively be 1 model with 10 wounds and 15 heavy bolter shots - which is quite similar to a Redemptor Dreadnought. 

I suppose you could just model a Primaris Devastator squad on the Redemptor base and give one of each redemptor weapons to each member of the squad. I mean, if you really want a heavy weapon squad instead of a mech.

Why would it be 10 wounds? They can't shift wounds around like 5th edition so a model would die eventually taking out a bit of firepower at a time

They would just be so strong with 2 wounds each. 

[Ish]

I was just thinking of using Primaris bodies and standard Devastator Squad rules.

If anything, I’d be giving myself a (slight) disadvantage since the taller model and larger base would make it harder to get cover behind some terrain or fit  into others.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

Why would it be 10 wounds? They can't shift wounds around like 5th edition so a model would die eventually taking out a bit of firepower at a time

They would just be so strong with 2 wounds each. 

If you had 5x primaris marines, they'd have 2 wounds each, so the unit would have 10 wounds. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Ish said:

I was just thinking of using Primaris bodies and standard Devastator Squad rules.

If anything, I’d be giving myself a (slight) disadvantage since the taller model and larger base would make it harder to get cover behind some terrain or fit  into others.

Do they have a kneeling Primaris pose? Or maybe model them already wounded (like with peg legs) to mark that they've got only one wound...

Devastators and primaris marines do come on the same size bases. That was a switch done in 7th, I think. All of the old marine infantry went from 25mm to 32mm. The current Khorne Bezerker kit includes 32mm rounds, despite the skulpts in that kit being in circulation for since maybe 3rd edition.

[Ish]

They don’t have kneeling Primaris legs and I can’t find any third-party source for them either. I wanted to have kneeling Stalker Intercessors for that “sniper” aesthetic.

 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Ish said:

They don’t have kneeling Primaris legs and I can’t find any third-party source for them either. I wanted to have kneeling Stalker Intercessors for that “sniper” aesthetic.

 

Just wondering, which heavy weapons were you thinking you needed? Between the 3x variants of intercessors and 3x variants of hellblasters, they do have equivelents to most of the normal weapons.

And on the to-wound roll, the difference between strengths of weapons matters less than it did in previous editions. I mean, an S14 weapon is identical to a S8 weapon against 90% of targets (90% of targets will be T4 or less). No more instant death and no more armor values.

[VonVilkee]

You need heavy bolters for the hell fire shell stratagem! Love that one so much...

[Ish]

Mostly it’s just a matter of wanting some variation in the models, more so than game mechanics.

However, their isn’t anything in the Primaris Marines’ arsenal that has S 9, other than a Hellblaster with an overcharged Heavy Plasma Incinerator or the Lascannon and Las-Talons of the Repulsor. This can make it difficult to deal with a tank-heavy opppnent.

Likewise, the only option for a Flamer of any kind for the Primaris Marines is the Redemptor Dreadnought’s optional Heavy Flamer or Agressors. I know Flamers aren’t all that hot right now (pun very much intended), but if City Fight makes a comeback they’ll probably be more useful (and you know Salamanders players with they had them!).

I just want more toys!

[Ish]

Just now, VonVilkee said:

You need heavy bolters for the hell fire shell stratagem! Love that one so much...

Plus they look hella cool. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, VonVilkee said:

You need heavy bolters for the hell fire shell stratagem! Love that one so much...

So Primaris marines don't need heavy bolters, they just need the option to use that stratagem....

1 hour ago, Ish said:

Mostly it’s just a matter of wanting some variation in the models, more so than game mechanics.

However, their isn’t anything in the Primaris Marines’ arsenal that has S 9, other than a Hellblaster with an overcharged Heavy Plasma Incinerator or the Lascannon and Las-Talons of the Repulsor. This can make it difficult to deal with a tank-heavy opppnent.

Likewise, the only option for a Flamer of any kind for the Primaris Marines is the Redemptor Dreadnought’s optional Heavy Flamer or Agressors. I know Flamers aren’t all that hot right now (pun very much intended), but if City Fight makes a comeback they’ll probably be more useful (and you know Salamanders players with they had them!).

I just want more toys!

Well, fielding a primaris only army is not unlike fielding a Khorne only Daemon army. If you are using less than half of the units in your codex, you'll probably run into problems with not having many different units. Doesn't really feel like that would be GW's fault, or even something they need to fix.

And regarding S9, the only difference between S9 and S8 is against T8+ opponents. Most tanks are T7. It really should be hard for infantry to cope with T8+. Besides, if you want multi-wound SM with lascannons, they already have Centurions in that role.

But doesn't the Redemptor's plasma cannon get to S9?

[Ish]

It’s not that I want them to be Primaris mechanically, it’s more that I want them to be Primaris Marine models aesthetically. 

Theres nothing wrong with the non-Primaris models (except Centurions who are just ridiculous), but it does seem odd to have the height disparity when it could easily be avoided by a few basic conversions.

[Guest]

Just now, Ish said:

It’s not that I want them to be Primaris mechanically, it’s more that I want them to be Primaris Marine models aesthetically. 

Theres nothing wrong with the non-Primaris models (except Centurions who are just ridiculous), but it does seem odd to have the height disparity when it could easily be avoided by a few basic conversions.

Could make Primaris Centurions that count as regular dreadnoughts...

[Ish]

I will continue to live with my comforting self-delusion that Centurions don’t exist. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Ish said:

I will continue to live with my comforting self-delusion that Centurions don’t exist. 

They are a really cool model kit, though. The kit is so much better than the finished model looks.

[Guest]

BTW, waiting on @Lyraeus to post his third list....

[Ish]

If I ever find myself really needing Centurions, I’ll probably just put Centurion arms onto Aggressor bodies. Maybe kitbash some Aggressors with over-the-shoulder lascannons, a la Gundam’s Guncannon:

Like this, but with power fists and pauldrons.

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, Ish said:

If I ever find myself really needing Centurions, I’ll probably just put Centurion arms onto Aggressor bodies. Maybe kitbash some Aggressors with over-the-shoulder lascannons, a la Gundam’s Guncannon:

Like this, but with power fists and pauldrons.

That design for a mech seems really impractical...

[Ish]

No more so than any other mecha, the idea of using giant humanoid war machines is inherently impractical.