Sgt. Rock's War Stories

[Lyraeus]

1 hour ago, Ish said:

“Should happen” and “does happen” are little more than kissing cousins. Probability curves have pointy ends as well as the fat bulge in the middle...

Throw two dice, probability says you’ll get a ‘Seven,’ but Las Vegas was built by people who knew that plenty of people would also get snake-eyes whilst chasing that elusive ‘Eleven.’ 

Yup. Averages only exist over a multitude of games. The math can give you what should expect but not what will happen 

[apathy ales]

I feel like it may be missing volume of attacks? 

What about inceptors? S5 AP-1 D1. With three 2 wound units you get 18 shots at 18 inch range. 

Aggressors are another thought. 

Just talking out loud mostly.

[Lyraeus]

33 minutes ago, apathy ales said:

I feel like it may be missing volume of attacks? 

What about inceptors? S5 AP-1 D1. With three 2 wound units you get 18 shots at 18 inch range. 

Aggressors are another thought. 

Just talking out loud mostly.

Those could actually work especially as Crimson Fists because if he is shooting at a 6+ body squad he is hitting on 2's

[Sgt. Rock]

I thought about Inceptors, but I worried that by doing that, I'd be giving up too much anti-armor capability. At 1k points, I should be expecting to see heavier armor on the board, and I need to have the means with which to deal with it. At some point, I need to just break down and buy a Devastator squad or two, but right now, it's just not in the cards. 

[Lyraeus]

17 minutes ago, Sgt. Rock said:

I thought about Inceptors, but I worried that by doing that, I'd be giving up too much anti-armor capability. At 1k points, I should be expecting to see heavier armor on the board, and I need to have the means with which to deal with it. At some point, I need to just break down and buy a Devastator squad or two, but right now, it's just not in the cards. 

Eh, you have the Dread, the razor, the tech marine. 18x S5 AP-1 shots still can hurt vehicles... On average 2 wounds but they are mobile fire platforms

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, Sgt. Rock said:

I thought about Inceptors, but I worried that by doing that, I'd be giving up too much anti-armor capability. At 1k points, I should be expecting to see heavier armor on the board, and I need to have the means with which to deal with it. At some point, I need to just break down and buy a Devastator squad or two, but right now, it's just not in the cards. 

Well, if you want, I could bring Chaos and give you some heavier armor this week....I just don't really have any heavy armor for my TAU (my stormsurge is in pieces right now, and even that isn't really heavy armor, it's just big).

Looking at other's lists, looks like the heaviest armor is going to be redemptor dreads.

[Sgt. Rock]

1 hour ago, Lyraeus said:

Eh, you have the Dread, the razor, the tech marine. 18x S5 AP-1 shots still can hurt vehicles... On average 2 wounds but they are mobile fire platforms

Yeah, if you recall how long that Razorback lasted in our game yesterday. 😛

55 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Well, if you want, I could bring Chaos and give you some heavier armor this week....I just don't really have any heavy armor for my TAU (my stormsurge is in pieces right now, and even that isn't really heavy armor, it's just big).

Looking at other's lists, looks like the heaviest armor is going to be redemptor dreads.

I'm concerned primarily about things like a Leman Russ. As far as I know, we only have one Guard player, but anything T8 is going to give me fits. I could try something like this:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [59 PL, 1000pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Crimson Fists

+ HQ +

Captain in Gravis Armor [7 PL, 118pts]: Boltstorm gauntlet, Master-crafted power sword

Techmarine [5 PL, 71pts]: Chainsword, Combi-melta
. Servo-harness: Flamer, Plasma cutter

+ Troops +

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 89pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor
. Intercessor Sergeant: Power sword

Scout Squad [6 PL, 80pts]: 5x Camo cloak
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle
. 4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

Tactical Squad [9 PL, 170pts]
. 7x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Power fist
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher
. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 93pts]
. 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Combi-flamer, Melta bombs, Power fist
. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Flamer

+ Elites +

Dreadnought [7 PL, 132pts]: Twin lascannon
. Dreadnought combat weapon w/Storm Bolter: Storm bolter

+ Fast Attack +

Inceptor Squad [10 PL, 135pts]: Assault bolter, 2x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant

+ Dedicated Transport +

Razorback [5 PL, 112pts]: Storm bolter, Twin lascannon

++ Total: [59 PL, 1000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Put the minimum size tactical squad in the Razorback with the Techmarine, that way I have an assload of flamers coming out of there to melt faces with, as well as a power fist and two servo arms to eff up heavy armor/vehicles in melee. I get my Gravis captain melee beatstick again, and the Inceptors who, as @Lyraeus pointed out, are really great with the Crimson Fists chapter tactic.

EDIT: Razorback, not Rhino. Derp.

[Ish]

There's two Imperial Guard players and one Genestealer Cults player, IIRC. All three of whom could put a Leman Russ squadron on the table if they wanted too. Any of us Space Marine players could, in theory, field a Land Raider at this points level... But it'd be difficult to fit in anything heavier than those two tanks (in any of their umpteen variants) at 1,000 Points.

I mean, I guess it'd be possible to field a pair of Knight Titans or Baneblades, but that'd be all you could field.

[Sgt. Rock]

14 minutes ago, Ish said:

There's two Imperial Guard players and one Genestealer Cults player, IIRC. All three of whom could put a Leman Russ squadron on the table if they wanted too. Any of us Space Marine players could, in theory, field a Land Raider at this points level... But it'd be difficult to fit in anything heavier than those two tanks (in any of their umpteen variants) at 1,000 Points.

I mean, I guess it'd be possible to field a pair of Knight Titans or Baneblades, but that'd be all you could field.

That's precisely the problem. It's very easy to fit a Leman Russ in at 500 points, much less 1k. Land Raiders are a bit more of a tight squeeze, but I could very easily run into one. In both cases, they're T8, with a 2+ save on the Raider and 3+ on the Russ. Both have a lot of wounds that will be hard to whittle down. Really, I feel like I should have another Lascannon or two on the board, but I can only work with what I have, I suppose. 

[Ish]

That’s what I enjoy about smaller budget games. You can’t quite field an answer to every possible tactical question (let alone many redundancies), so you need to be strategic in designing your list.

That’s fun for me, maybe I’m weird.

Granted, my decisions are hampered by the limited pool of models currently in my collection. But I’m gonna keep growing it until I eventually have a full Battle Company and some support elements. It’ll be rare that I ever get to use all of it, but I’ll have lots of fun mucking around with combinations.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ish said:

There's two Imperial Guard players and one Genestealer Cults player, IIRC. All three of whom could put a Leman Russ squadron on the table if they wanted too. Any of us Space Marine players could, in theory, field a Land Raider at this points level... But it'd be difficult to fit in anything heavier than those two tanks (in any of their umpteen variants) at 1,000 Points.

I mean, I guess it'd be possible to field a pair of Knight Titans or Baneblades, but that'd be all you could field.

Some of the Baneblade Variants are actually cheaper than land raiders. Same with some builds of knights. And then Lyraeus ran a T8 warlord last time (T6, but has some warlord trait and relic that boost it to T8). Could probably fit a trio of knights at 1k. 

And that SM Vindicator is T8. Pretty cheap to spam. Eldar have Wraithlords which are also cheap T8.

And then of course, someone could run a Bastion. Bastions are T9 with 20 wounds for only about 200pts. 

But T8 isn't really that impressive in this edition. Don't get me wrong, it's annoying and requires more effort than a lower toughness, but the to-wound rules in this edition are really kind over that of previous editions.

Regarding coping with land raiders and such, I suggest taking a few thunderhammers and then taking a Psyker that can enable a unit to re-roll to-wound rolls. 

2 minutes ago, Ish said:

That’s what I enjoy about smaller budget games. You can’t quite field an answer to every possible tactical question (let alone many redundancies), so you need to be strategic in designing your list.

That’s fun for me, maybe I’m weird.

Granted, my decisions are hampered by the limited pool of models currently in my collection. But I’m gonna keep growing it until I eventually have a full Battle Company and some support elements. It’ll be rare that I ever get to use all of it, but I’ll have lots of fun mucking around with combinations.

That's one of those things that's been really weird for me learning my TAU. S5 weapons wound T6-9 on the same 5s. All our firewarriors have S5 weapons. Those drones have S5 weapons. Crisis Suits are S5 in melee. That Ethereal is S5 in melee. 

And then the Railguns are S10. So they wound on the same 3s for T6-9. Onager Guantlet is also S10.

Weird army to get used to.

 

[Ish]

Strength 5 is kind of this edition's equivalent to Strength 6 under the "old money." Craftworld Eldar got a lot of mileage in 6th and 7th Edition from their ability to "spam" a lot of highly mobile Strength 6 units: Shuriken cannons for everybody! With the revisions to the Strength/Toughness system, Tau's massive numbers of Strength 5 guns have become very valuable in the "new money."

Powerful enough to do well against Infantry, but not feeling like overkill when used on massed ranks of GEQs, a threat to MEQs, and decent enough to punch light vehicles and smaller monsters when used in quantity... and just good enough that even a heavy vehicle or large monster cannot completely ignore it. A squad Fire Warriors or Gun Drones probably won't kill a healthy Rhino, but they can probably finish off one that's already been hit by a Railgun or Fusion Blaster. Alternatively, if they don't have anything better to shoot at, they can soften one up in Turn N for a Hammerhead or Crisis Suit to finish off in Turn N+1.

The trick to Tau, me thinks, is getting your order of activation right in any given turn's Shooting Phase and your target priority right over the whole course of the game. 

[Sgt. Rock]

23 minutes ago, Ish said:

That’s what I enjoy about smaller budget games. You can’t quite field an answer to every possible tactical question (let alone many redundancies), so you need to be strategic in designing your list.

That’s fun for me, maybe I’m weird.

Granted, my decisions are hampered by the limited pool of models currently in my collection. But I’m gonna keep growing it until I eventually have a full Battle Company and some support elements. It’ll be rare that I ever get to use all of it, but I’ll have lots of fun mucking around with combinations.

I generally agree, I love the challenges presented by low-point games. I'm in the same boat with regards to limited models. I just don't want to run into something that I just don't have an answer for that will wipe me off the board. I'm expecting to find that, of course; I'm still very new to this edition, and I'm rusty as hell with 40k in general. But I can at least *try* to cover my bases.

[Ish]

The only things likely to "wipe you off the board" that will fit into 1,000 Points are basically Übermensch Special Characters (e.g., Mortarion), super-heavy vehicles (e.g., Baneblade), and Knight Titans. So far, none of us have yet broken the seal on the nuclear launch codes and fielded any of these... And even if they did, these things are so pricey that you'd have almost nothing left to work with for trying to grab Objectives. Your big guy would need to wipe their whole army, their whole army could concentrate everything they had on just you. Sometimes that works well for Godzilla, sometimes Godzilla goes down hard. There's no middle ground.

Leman Russ tanks and equivalent heavy-but-not-super-heavy units can be tricky to deal with, but they can be dealt with (a power fist [or equivalent] in mêlée works best or a half-dozen lascannon [or equivalent] at range). What makes them trickier to deal with than Godzilla is that they're generally cheap enough (300± Points) that a decent sized force of other stuff can be put on the table with them.

[Sgt. Rock]

Proof that I can, indeed, paint models! Not 100% complete yet, as I'm waiting for some shoulder badges I ordered from Pop Goes the Monkey. But other than that, they're done.

[Guest]

On 1/22/2019 at 12:47 AM, Ish said:

The only things likely to "wipe you off the board" that will fit into 1,000 Points are basically Übermensch Special Characters (e.g., Mortarion), super-heavy vehicles (e.g., Baneblade), and Knight Titans. So far, none of us have yet broken the seal on the nuclear launch codes and fielded any of these... And even if they did, these things are so pricey that you'd have almost nothing left to work with for trying to grab Objectives. Your big guy would need to wipe their whole army, their whole army could concentrate everything they had on just you. Sometimes that works well for Godzilla, sometimes Godzilla goes down hard. There's no middle ground.

Leman Russ tanks and equivalent heavy-but-not-super-heavy units can be tricky to deal with, but they can be dealt with (a power fist [or equivalent] in mêlée works best or a half-dozen lascannon [or equivalent] at range). What makes them trickier to deal with than Godzilla is that they're generally cheap enough (300± Points) that a decent sized force of other stuff can be put on the table with them.

Guard can do it effortlessly with artillery tanks. They don't really need super heavies or T8 tanks to wipe their enemy off the table.

Regarding nuclear Launch codes, a BA smash captain has greater offensive potential than my Stormsurge....a sad reality there. 

Regarding middle ground, super heavies can be bought for as little as 320-ish points. Any single unit of equal point value should be considered equal to a super heavy. I can fit a "minor" super heavy in a 750 or 1k list while still having options for objectives grabing and support. 

My Stormsurge hasn't been coming because I'm waiting on parts, not because it would be broken at this point level, nor because I can't fit it in my lists.

 

[Ish]

Most of the Guards’ artillery falls under the “heavy-but-not-super-heavy units” that I mentioned. They trade away the Russ’ durability for a bigger gun, of course, which makes them scarier on the offense but weaker on the defense.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Ish said:

Most of the Guards’ artillery falls under the “heavy-but-not-super-heavy units” that I mentioned. They trade away the Russ’ durability for a bigger gun, of course, which makes them scarier on the offense but weaker on the defense.

Weaker on the defense only applies if you have Line of Sight to them (or can charge them). Indirect fire and LoS blockers is the superior defense option. 

By “heavy-but-not-super-heavy units” I was thinking of the FW heavy tanks that don't occupy LoW slots. Like the Malcador or Thunderer Siege tank. 

[Ish]

Well, yes... I kinda thought that saying these units could “be tricky to deal with, but they can be dealt with[,]” rather implied that the player opposing them would have to take active steps to deal with it. You can’t kill a lone Gretchin if you can’t shoot it or charge it. 

There isn’t a faction in the game that doesn’t have options for dealing with units of indirect firing artillery hiding behind line of sight blocking terrain. Not one. 

[Sgt. Rock]

2 hours ago, Ish said:

Well, yes... I kinda thought that saying these units could “be tricky to deal with, but they can be dealt with[,]” rather implied that the player opposing them would have to take active steps to deal with it. You can’t kill a lone Gretchin if you can’t shoot it or charge it. 

There isn’t a faction in the game that doesn’t have options for dealing with units of indirect firing artillery hiding behind line of sight blocking terrain. Not one. 

It's basically what Deep Strike is for. My next purchase is going to be some Terminators. Even at a minimum squad size, 5 storm bolters clears out bubble wrap in a damn hurry (especially if there's 10 of them to start, so I'm hitting on 2s), and even though 9" is a long charge, 4 power fists will make short work of anything on a Chimera chassis. Hell, even the storm bolters and power sword on the sergeant can make a dent on it. Drop a Terminator librarian in there behind them, throw Veil of Time on them for the reroll on the charge, and make a royal mess out of anything in front of them.

[Ish]

And armies that don't have Terminator-class Deep Strikers, often have some sort of fast-moving flanker that can mount an anti-tank gun: Eldar Vypers, Tau Crisis Suits, Dark Eldar Venoms (not anti-tank themselves, but they can carry anti-tank infantry), and the like.