Forge World Stormcast Eternal heads...

[dalmer]

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-WW/searchResults?N=242126343+427111271

 

[Ish]

GW seems to have finally caught on to the idea that people will pay good money for custom bits.

[WestRider]

Yeah, I'm def getting a pack of these at some point. Not even for StormCast, just to give me extra head options for whatever I end up working on.

[Tamwulf]

I'm confused by this move. Last year, Forge World [big bad swear word] canned a ton of 30K/40K bits, and said they were "streamlining the catalog", now this? I'm glad we're getting optional bits and all, but...

[pretre]

3 minutes ago, Tamwulf said:

I'm confused by this move. Last year, Forge World [big bad swear word] canned a ton of 30K/40K bits, and said they were "streamlining the catalog", now this? I'm glad we're getting optional bits and all, but...

I imagine they streamlined so that they could save money and give them the option to make new stuff. Once you've made your money back on a mold, you can try the next one to see what's going to be a big seller or just get options out there.

That's part of FW's history. Make something cool for a couple years until it wears out and move on. They have the luxury of being able to do small batch stuff instead of having to keep everything current.

[Tamwulf]

3 minutes ago, pretre said:

I imagine they streamlined so that they could save money and give them the option to make new stuff. Once you've made your money back on a mold, you can try the next one to see what's going to be a big seller or just get options out there.

I could buy this, except once the mold is made and paid for, it's making money every time someone orders "Blood Angels Upgrade kit" or "Phobos Pattern Bolters". There is nothing that prevented FW from making these like, two years ago. /shrug

[pretre]

1 minute ago, Tamwulf said:

I could buy this, except once the mold is made and paid for, it's making money every time someone orders "Blood Angels Upgrade kit" or "Phobos Pattern Bolters". There is nothing that prevented FW from making these like, two years ago. /shrug

Well, except for mold wear, shelf space, production time and all that jazz.

[WestRider]

38 minutes ago, Tamwulf said:

I could buy this, except once the mold is made and paid for, it's making money every time someone orders "Blood Angels Upgrade kit" or "Phobos Pattern Bolters". There is nothing that prevented FW from making these like, two years ago. /shrug

Molds for resin Models wear out relatively quickly compared to those for plastic Models. There are actually two categories of paying for a given Model. The first is fixed at creation, and can be payed off permanently: The cost of the design work and making the Master and all the other preliminaries. The second is ongoing, and needs to be taken into account throughout the lifespan of the product: The cost of re-making the mold every so many casts and the time of the caster, plus all kinds of overhead like packaging costs or storage space for old molds and final product inventory. If the number of kits sold can't keep up with those costs, it makes more sense to retire it.

[Ish]

Pretty much every Forge World product should be considered a “limited time” offering.

[Guest]

On 1/19/2019 at 10:21 AM, Ish said:

Pretty much every Forge World product should be considered a “limited time” offering.

In fairness, if they sell really well, GW makes plastics. If they sell poorly, FW stops selling them. So the only ones that would last a long time anyway, are the middleground products, which sell just enough to justify their FW molds, but not enought to justify plastics.

Look at those Mk3 marines. They sold really well. GW made plastics and FW, mostly, stopped selling them.

[Ish]

I think you mean "if they sell really well, Citadel makes plastics." Since Games Workshop is the company, Forge World and Citadel are just product lines that the company makes. For the most part, I think you're right, when a FW product is really successful and can be economically produced in plastic, then GW will redesign the product as a Citadel kit. This is why we've seen things like the Valkyrie moved to Citadel fairly quickly, but probably won't see a plastic Warhound Titan any time soon.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Ish said:

I think you mean "if they sell really well, Citadel makes plastics." Since Games Workshop is the company, Forge World and Citadel are just product lines that the company makes. For the most part, I think you're right, when a FW product is really successful and can be economically produced in plastic, then GW will redesign the product as a Citadel kit. This is why we've seen things like the Valkyrie moved to Citadel fairly quickly, but probably won't see a plastic Warhound Titan any time soon.

Hmm...yeah, I suppose Citadel might be the right one. GW tends to disassociate itself from FW, though I agree they are pieces of the same whole.

[Ish]

Games Workshop's player base tends to disassociate GW from Forge World... and I've never understood why. As @AbusePuppy can attest, I've been vociferously arguing about the issue for many long years now. 

[pretre]

8 hours ago, Ish said:

Games Workshop's player base tends to disassociate GW from Forge World... and I've never understood why. As @AbusePuppy can attest, I've been vociferously arguing about the issue for many long years now. 

I think this stems from the days when GW themselves made a distinction in events. Often FW wasn't allowed in various GW events and people took that as some big divide or big reason why FW was badwrong.

[Ish]

People have an annoying habit of conflating “house rules used at this event” with “actual rules of the game.”

[pretre]

Just now, Ish said:

People have an annoying habit of conflating “house rules used at this event” with “actual rules of the game.”

Yep. But that's how we got where we are.

[Ish]

[Guest]

Those GW stores also used to ban FW models from being fielded in casual play in their store. This was more because the GW stores don't/can't sell those models, so I understand their stance, but definitely reinforced the idea that FW wasn't GW.

[Guest]

@Ish From a balance stance, FW has much better rules this, and last edition, than they've had in previous editions. Nothing's perfect, but the FW rules are actually designed for usage in normal play.

Back in 5th/4th, many of the FW models were designed for their own variant on 40k. They had rules for flyers much before the 40k main ruleset used them, and multiple detachments, and super-heavies, and so forth. So asking the opponent's permission to use FW models was kinda needed because they required knowing a bunch of new game mechanics.

[Ish]

I know the history of the rules, Pax. I was there, I was playing them. I have no problem asking about using supplemental rules before using them... I was saying I have never understood why people assume that Forgeworld is a separate company from Games Workshop.

[pretre]

7 minutes ago, Ish said:

. I was saying I have never understood why people assume that Forgeworld is a separate company from Games Workshop.

Because FW didn't start as part of GW and they distanced themselves from them for years (at events and such) only to buy it up and make it part of the business?

[Ish]

Forgeworld has always been part of Games Workshop Group, PLC. It’s never been an independent company. They started up in 1998 with the original pewter Thunderhawk and line of resin terrain.

I think you’re thinking of either Amorcast, EpiCast, or Forge World Models, both of which were independent companies that made models under license from GW in the early to mid Nineties.

[pretre]

11 minutes ago, Ish said:

Forgeworld has always been part of Games Workshop Group, PLC. It’s never been an independent company. They started up in 1998 with the original pewter Thunderhawk and line of resin terrain.

I think you’re thinking of either Amorcast, EpiCast, or Forge World Models, both of which were independent companies that made models under license from GW in the early to mid Nineties.

I know what I'm thinking about, as I am thinking it.

Before Forgeworld was Forgeworld, there was Forge World. You might understand the confusion of some people who have been around for a while.

As well, as I said, GW themselves did not allow Forge world or Forgeworld models in their RTT, GTs, 'AB, etc. for years.

Local, and widely accepted, inclusion of FW is a very new thing in the timeline of 40k. Before the last few years, it was always treated as a very separate part of the hobby.

edit: Add to that the fact that the Forgeworld Forge World distinction doesn't exist except in this thread. 🙂

[Ish]

Forge World Models was a completely different company!

Mike Biasi was a freelance sculptor and he produced a 40K scale Warhound Titan modeled on the early models from Adeptus Titanicus. Games Workshop gave Mike a license to produce 40K scale models of other Epic 40,000 vehicles; Mike named his company Mike Biasi Studios. Tim DuPertuis started publishing Inquisitor magazine in June of 1991, with rules for the Mile Biasi Studios models in it. 

A guy named Nick Tompkins also made some 40k scale models based on Epic designs and got a license from GW to sell them. That company was Epicast USA.

Mike Biasi’s deal with Games Workshop eventually ended and John Richardson received the right to reproduce Biasi’s models and some new ones on a large scale production basis. GW agreed. This was the start of Forge World Models.

Tim DuPertuis also got a license from GW to mass produce the Biasi designs and eventually got Biasi to agree to work with him to refine and update the models. This was the begging of the company (that’s still around today) called Armorcast.

None of these companies is the same as the Forgeworld division of Games Workshop. That division was formed in 1998, it was never its own company and has bugger all to do with the older licensed companies.

[pretre]

18 minutes ago, Ish said:

Forge World Models was a completely different company!

Why do you keep correcting things I didn't say?

I say 'Because FW didn't start as part of GW' : This is true. Forge World as a brand started as a licensee and later GW started a division called Forgeworld. Meaning that people who lived through the 90's/early 2000's in the hobby experienced both companies.

You say 'Forgeworld has always been part of GW... you're thinking of Forge world'. The distinction here is amusing and you are technically correct, the best kind, but miss the point. Yes, Forge world as part of GW has been always been part of GW. Forgeworld as a brand, and as part of the GW hobby, has not always been part of GW.

I say 'Before Forgeworld was Forgeworld, there was Forge World. You might understand the confusion of some people who have been around for a while. ". I'm agreeing with you that before Forgeworld was a division of GW, it was a licensee. YOu say 'Forge World Models was a completely different company! ' I know, I just said that.

You then cut and paste the solegends page at me. Telling me what we both already know.

 

So let's make this simple:

You said ". I was saying I have never understood why people assume that Forgeworld is a separate company from Games Workshop."

I said "Because FW didn't start as part of GW and they distanced themselves from them for years (at events and such) only to buy it up and make it part of the business? " and you decided I said something different, so let's clarify:

Because FW (THE BRAND THAT PEOPLE ASSOCIATE WITH 40K) didn't start as part of GW (BUT AS A LICENSEE). GW distanced themselves from THE LICENSEE for years (at events and such), only to buy it up (THE BRAND NAME, OR AT LEAST REMOVE THE LICENSE) and make it part of the business WHERE THEY CONTINUED TO DISTANCE THEMSELVES (AT EVENTS AND SUCH) UNTIL THE LAST FEW YEARS WHERE THEY STARTED ENCOURAGING ITS USE.

Clear?