valourunbound Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 Correct. All valid pivot moves can be completed by a reform, but not all reform moves can be done by a pivot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewgeddon Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 18 minutes ago, paxmiles said: @valourunbound So, sake of argument, I have a 5 model unit and they want to use Vanguard. I can't use this move to pivot, but I could use it to reform (which can be used to do something very similar, if not the same). Correct, basically, keeping in mind that you need a model in the unit that has Swift Reform (like a musician) in order to both reform and move in the same turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 Oh, pretty sure I can, but can I use a Vanguard move to attached characters to units? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valourunbound Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 Nope. Page 102. Quote This can be done either by deploying the Character in the unit or by moving into contact with the unit during the Movement Phase while performing an Advance Move or a March Move Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 Character question. Okay, got my 25x50 mounted character. Attach him to my unit of thirteen 25x25 based standard size models. If our front rank is 5 standard models, how many Full Ranks do we have? Kinda confused at the "displacing" concept. Does the model on the 25x50 base effectively count as 2 models for ranks in a 25x25 base unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 Oh, another another weird one. Can my model's Advance stat be higher than my March stat? The "Titanslayer Chariot" for daemons has 7" Advance and 7" March and an upgrade for +1" advance. I feel like I'm missing something key here, or it's a typo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valourunbound Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 hour ago, paxmiles said: Character question. Okay, got my 25x50 mounted character. Attach him to my unit of thirteen 25x25 based standard size models. If our front rank is 5 standard models, how many Full Ranks do we have? Kinda confused at the "displacing" concept. Does the model on the 25x50 base effectively count as 2 models for ranks in a 25x25 base unit? You have three Full Ranks. For the purposes of ranks, he counts as two models. I am a particular abuser of this rule as I have my 60x100 Plague Pendulum in a unit of of 20 20x20 Plague Brotherhood. This means when I am five wide I have a total of seven Full Ranks. 1 hour ago, paxmiles said: Oh, another another weird one. Can my model's Advance stat be higher than my March stat? The "Titanslayer Chariot" for daemons has 7" Advance and 7" March and an upgrade for +1" advance. I feel like I'm missing something key here, or it's a typo. There is no rule requiring that March be higher than Advance. Historically chariots couldn't march. Rather than have a separate rule saying "cannot march", they just set the March rate such that you will never choose to march. I suppose there is no reason they couldn't have set it to 0, since you will never use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 hour ago, valourunbound said: You have three Full Ranks. For the purposes of ranks, he counts as two models. I am a particular abuser of this rule as I have my 60x100 Plague Pendulum in a unit of of 20 20x20 Plague Brotherhood. This means when I am five wide I have a total of seven Full Ranks. Wait...oh, War platform. Interesting. Okay, so the "small" Hope Harvester has War Platform. It's a 50x100 base. Provided I could fit that inside my unit, I could legally attach it? What happens when the opponent kills too many models for the platform to be in the center, does it get ejected? One can of worms leads to another...sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valourunbound Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 Yes, the Hope Harvester can go in any r&f unit that is on... 25x25 or 50x50 or 25x50, etc. As long as it is a Matching Base, it can be inside. It will not get kicked out of the unit as long as there is at least one other model in the unit. After that, it doesn't matter since there is no unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, valourunbound said: Yes, the Hope Harvester can go in any r&f unit that is on... 25x25 or 50x50 or 25x50, etc. As long as it is a Matching Base, it can be inside. It will not get kicked out of the unit as long as there is at least one other model in the unit. After that, it doesn't matter since there is no unit. Mind blown. Back to the drawing board. So, I've got some Warhammer Siege Covered Battering Rams....So, you're saying the "small" hope harvester (with some modification) would be a great model to represent this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valourunbound Posted November 16, 2019 Report Share Posted November 16, 2019 Other than the shooty bits, that works perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 16, 2019 Report Share Posted November 16, 2019 1 minute ago, valourunbound said: Other than the shooty bits, that works perfectly. I suppose we could just never shoot.... But, defintely, I think converting it a bit makes sense, especially volley gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valourunbound Posted November 16, 2019 Report Share Posted November 16, 2019 Then again, if you looked at some Pink Horrors, there's no reason you'd expect them to shoot either. Yay Daemons! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewgeddon Posted November 16, 2019 Report Share Posted November 16, 2019 10 minutes ago, valourunbound said: Then again, if you looked at some Pink Horrors, there's no reason you'd expect them to shoot either. Yay Daemons! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 16, 2019 Report Share Posted November 16, 2019 3 hours ago, valourunbound said: Then again, if you looked at some Pink Horrors, there's no reason you'd expect them to shoot either. Yay Daemons! Well, the rules don't really cover limited wizards that only cast spells about as potent as a crossbow bolt or two. So they get a shooting attack. It's easier to have it function that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 16, 2019 Report Share Posted November 16, 2019 Still Kicking ideas around: 4500 Pts - Daemon Legions Army List Total Army List Cost: 4494 Vanadra's Scourge (1#, 795 pts) . . 1 Vanadra's Scourge, 745 pts = (base cost 710 + Greater Dominion 35) . . . . 1 Cloven Hooves, 35 pts . . . . 1 Dexterous Tentacles, 15 pts Miser of Sugulag (1#, 740 pts) . . 1 Miser of Sugulag, 715 pts = (base cost 640 + Wizard Adept 75) . . . . 1 Charged Tendrils, 25 pts . . . . 1 Path of Divination, 0 pts Harbinger of Father Chaos (1#, 265 pts) . . 1 Harbinger of Father Chaos, 210 pts = (base cost 160 + Battle Standard Bearer 50) . . . . 1 Incendiary Ichor - Guiding, 30 pts . . . . 1 Unnatural Roots, 25 pts Lemures (25#, 695 pts) . . 25 Lemures, 695 pts = 25 * 27 (base cost 25 + Venom Sacs 2) + Base Cost Adjustment -40 + Champion Sgt 20 + Musician Mus 20 + Standard Bearer Std 20 Imps (12#, 303 pts) . . 12 Imps, 303 pts = 12 * 14 (base cost 14) + Base Cost Adjustment 65 + Musician Mus 20 + Sorcerous Antenna 50 Imps (12#, 303 pts) . . 12 Imps, 303 pts = 12 * 14 (base cost 14) + Base Cost Adjustment 65 + Musician Mus 20 + Sorcerous Antenna 50 Hope Harvester (1#, 335 pts) . . 1 Hope Harvester, 335 pts = (base cost 285 + Aura of Despair 50) Mageblight Gremlins (3#, 198 pts) . . 3 Mageblight Gremlins, 198 pts = 3 * 33 (base cost 33) + Base Cost Adjustment 99 Sirens (12#, 430 pts) . . 12 Sirens, 430 pts = 12 * 25 (base cost 25) + Base Cost Adjustment 70 + Champion Sgt 20 + Musician Mus 20 + Standard Bearer Std 20 Sirens (12#, 430 pts) . . 12 Sirens, 430 pts = 12 * 25 (base cost 25) + Base Cost Adjustment 70 + Champion Sgt 20 + Musician Mus 20 + Standard Bearer Std 20 Validation Report: Daemon Legions: Daemons Legion Army; Game: 9th Age (2nd Ed.); Competition Level: Tournament; Core Rules Version: 2.0; Data File Version: 2.49; Roster Output Format: Verbose Army List satisfies all enforced validation rules Composition Report: Points of Characters: 1800 (0 - 1800) Points of Core: 1301 (1125 - Unlimited) Points of Special: 1393 (0 - 0) Points of Aves (C1): 795 (0 - 1575) Created with Army Builder® - Try it for free at http://www.wolflair.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 16, 2019 Report Share Posted November 16, 2019 Idea is that Hope Harvester joins Lemures, BSB joins too. They become a slow moving, but disgusting, brick unit. Might be overkill in the durability department. Might be underkill too, don't really know much about this game. Only have the one Wizard, but he's very armored. Imps are upgraded to provide channel support. Scourge is a flying battering ram. I'm actually working on a bloodthirster model where he's holding the warhammer siege battering ram instead of the traditional Khorne Axe. Sirens and the Gremlins are there mainly because I like hard target, but couldn't figure out how to get it in the list elsewhere without sacrificing other things I wanted. Plus, they look like solid flank units. List is just a thought. Though I went really heavy with characters, and I should probably not. List feels kinda mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 18, 2019 Report Share Posted November 18, 2019 Got an Account on T9A website. They've been helping me with Daemon Legion tactics and obscure rules questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 Models are coming along nicely. Working on a blend of Savage Orcs, Lizardmen, Bloodletters, and other fantasy models on 25mm squares to form my Core units. Miser of Sululag started with a d&d fire giant, but keeps getting bigger. Nurglings and Snotlings for Mageblight Gremlins. Trying to put a metal battering ram in my plastic bloodthirster's hands. Working on putting metal bloodletters on Chaos steeds to become Sirens, and I'm also trying to figure out a good model to be represented by minotaurs and old smaller bloodthirsters, I'm leaning clawed fiends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 Wow, started working out the mathhammer, everything is very durable in this game. I love it. Biggest issues with 8e 40k is that nothing has any durability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valourunbound Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 It takes some getting used to. Coming from 8th whfb, it feel like my character is naked if he doesn't have a 2+ rerollable and a 4+ ward. Then I get into combat and remember that the enemy doesn't have it either 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 24, 2019 Report Share Posted November 24, 2019 19 hours ago, valourunbound said: It takes some getting used to. Coming from 8th whfb, it feel like my character is naked if he doesn't have a 2+ rerollable and a 4+ ward. Then I get into combat and remember that the enemy doesn't have it either 🙂 Well, Daemons all have the ward saves, but a 2+ armor save is a pipe dream for them. We do have some very tough guys, but they're more high resilience/high defense/Hard Target than they are about saves. Don't get me wrong, 5+ ward is awesome, but most of the time a 2+ or 3+ armor save is much better or equal. Very few of our units have armor at all, or even the option to take armor. Plus no weapon access and none of the standard magic items. It's a weird list with it's own unique problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 24, 2019 Report Share Posted November 24, 2019 Present plan is something like this: 4500 Pts - Daemon Legions Army List Total Army List Cost: 4476 Miser of Sugulag (1#, 820 pts) . . 1 Miser of Sugulag, 750 pts = (base cost 640 + Greater Dominion 35 + Wizard Adept 75) . . . . 1 Kaleidoscopic Flesh, 45 pts . . . . 1 Living Shield, 25 pts . . . . 1 Path of Divination, 0 pts Harbinger of Father Chaos (1#, 270 pts) . . 1 Harbinger of Father Chaos, 270 pts = (base cost 160 + Wizard Apprentice 40 + Pale Horse 70) Harbinger of Father Chaos (1#, 270 pts) . . 1 Harbinger of Father Chaos, 270 pts = (base cost 160 + Wizard Apprentice 40 + Pale Horse 70) Harbinger of Father Chaos (1#, 235 pts) . . 1 Harbinger of Father Chaos, 210 pts = (base cost 160 + Battle Standard Bearer 50) . . . . 1 Unnatural Roots, 25 pts Harbinger of Father Chaos (1#, 200 pts) . . 1 Harbinger of Father Chaos, 200 pts = (base cost 160 + Wizard Apprentice 40) Imps (10#, 215 pts) . . 10 Imps, 215 pts = 10 * 15 (base cost 14 + Incendiary Ichor 1) + Base Cost Adjustment 65 Imps (10#, 215 pts) . . 10 Imps, 215 pts = 10 * 15 (base cost 14 + Incendiary Ichor 1) + Base Cost Adjustment 65 Myrmidons (30#, 755 pts) . . 30 Myrmidons, 755 pts = 30 * 24 (base cost 24) + Base Cost Adjustment -25 + Champion Sgt 20 + Musician Mus 20 + Standard Bearer Std 20 Hope Harvester (1#, 285 pts) . . 1 Hope Harvester, 285 pts Sirens (5#, 235 pts) . . 5 Sirens, 235 pts = 5 * 25 (base cost 25) + Base Cost Adjustment 70 + Musician Mus 20 + Standard Bearer Std 20 Sirens (5#, 235 pts) . . 5 Sirens, 235 pts = 5 * 25 (base cost 25) + Base Cost Adjustment 70 + Musician Mus 20 + Standard Bearer Std 20 Mageblight Gremlins (4#, 291 pts) . . 4 Mageblight Gremlins, 291 pts = 4 * 48 (base cost 33 + Venom Sacs 15) + Base Cost Adjustment 99 Titanslayer Chariot (1#, 225 pts) . . 1 Titanslayer Chariot, 225 pts = (base cost 205) + Standard Bearer Std 20 Titanslayer Chariot (1#, 225 pts) . . 1 Titanslayer Chariot, 225 pts = (base cost 205) + Standard Bearer Std 20 Validation Report: Daemon Legions: Daemons Legion Army; Game: 9th Age (2nd Ed.); Competition Level: Tournament; Core Rules Version: 2.0; Data File Version: 2.49; Roster Output Format: Verbose Army List satisfies all enforced validation rules Composition Report: Points of Characters: 1795 (0 - 1800) Points of Core: 1185 (1125 - Unlimited) Points of Special: 1496 (0 - 0) Points of Aves (C1): 0 (0 - 1575) Created with Army Builder® - Try it for free at http://www.wolflair.com Regarding the Scourge, plan would be to Swap the Miser for the Scourge, not to field both in one list. Mounts characters join Siren units. BSB and Harvester join Myrmidons. Remaining character joins Gremlins (wanted to make it be a deciever, but ran out of points in characters). All characters take Divination Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valourunbound Posted November 25, 2019 Report Share Posted November 25, 2019 Looks good. Some thoughts: Wizard Apprentices can only get the number one spell and the hereditary. Spells cannot normally be cast multiple times in the same phase, even by different wizards. The DL hereditary is fairly unique with the replicable tag which allows it to be cast multiple times in the same phase by different wizards. If that's your plan, great. If your plan was to cast the Divination number one spell over and over, that's not gonna work. However, they would still count as Divination wizards for The Conclave rule. The next two are just my opinions, you can take them or leave them. Personally, I wouldn't run a character with a "chaff" unit like Sirens. That just makes the unit more expensive if you need to sacrifice it. Also, I wouldn't join characters to the Mageblight Gremlins as then they can't use their special Ambush rule. But the hard target can be useful as a defence. Oddly enough, shooting hits can't be distributed to a character in that unit, if there are enough (5) models as they are both standard beast, even though they are on different base sizes. Although I see now that the max unit size is four, so that'll never happen. Otherwise, it looks good! Can't wait to see it on the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 25, 2019 Report Share Posted November 25, 2019 Still tinkering with it. But for your specific points: Gremlins have hard target and are intended as a support unit for the Miser. I'm aware they can't ambush together. I can always choose to have the gremlins ambush and have the character join another unit, if I see the need for Gremlin ambush. Gremlins grant hard target to the character because hard target is based on more than half of the models having hard target. Plan was a Deciever, but I couldn't fit it. They also have a lot of wounds and attacks, so they really aren't a terrible attached unit. Wasn't sure on the spell thing, but I suspected duplicates weren't allowed. Either way, main point is the range increase on the Miser. Not sure if I need the range increase. Sirens, yeah, they aren't too durable, but they have solid other rules. Main point is to support the Miser with flank attacks. Characters add durability. Plan is a 3x2 for this unit, for mobility and since they don't get rank bonuses anyway (light troops). Though for suggestions online, basically, internet is pretty clear that our Miser isn't a usable character...I built one and really like my model, so now I have to make it work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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