Crusades and Summoning

[Brother Glacius]

So just browsing through the new book and reading up on the Crusade rules. Seems like this will be my favorite way to play (always loved a good campaign atmosphere). So there is a section about summoning and how those units never gain xp, and they don't pull from your Order of Battle. So exactly how do you fit them into your force? Say you are playing a 30 PL battle. In 8th edition, I would need to reserve points for my army for the summoned units (even if they never are successfully summoned). The rules around Crusade do not seem to be very clear on this. It sort of makes me think that you are able to summon units in a game without reserving points for them. Granted, I jumped straight over to the Crusade rules, so maybe this is covered in the basic army building rules?

Personally, I think summoning should be paid for with CPs instead of army points. That would still give it a cost without potentially putting your force at a size disadvantage.

[Lyraeus]

Its narrative play so technically you can summon as much as you want. I am thinking of adding an RP that gives X Power Rating to be able to summon and capping the initial amount to 5 PL but I have not played an army that uses it so I am open to reasonable suggestions for such things.

[Mulgrok]

I think the idea behind free summons is that the summons do not gain xp.  So the opponent can get xp for killing them, but you do not get any for whatever they do.

[Lyraeus]

5 minutes ago, Mulgrok said:

I think the idea behind free summons is that the summons do not gain xp.  So the opponent can get xp for killing them, but you do not get any for whatever they do.

That is one way to look at it but having seen how strong this was in 8th before the cap, your opponent can summon Greater Daemons and such and hundred of points of units every turn or so. 

A limitation might need to be placed. There likely wont be one the first time through as I want to run the first Crusade as close to the base rules as I can. 

[Brother Glacius]

There is risk involved as well. You could fail in your summons and possibly wound or kill your character. Don't discount that risk. That is why I think a cp cost is the way to go. It is limited and takes away other options.

[Lyraeus]

2 hours ago, Brother Glacius said:

There is risk involved as well. You could fail in your summons and possibly wound or kill your character. Don't discount that risk. That is why I think a cp cost is the way to go. It is limited and takes away other options.

CP as in command points or are we talking about the points used to boost your army?

[Ish]

14 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

CP as in command points or are we talking about the points used to boost your army?

Those are Requisition Points.

Command Points are the “currency” spent in-game to fuel Stratagems. 

[Brother Glacius]

exactly. So instead of using your CP for a reroll or some other ability, why not spend it for a summons. The up side is that you could get an extra unit for that battle. The downside is that you could spend the point and fail.

[Lyraeus]

It feels too restrictive. Making you use RP for a set number of Summoning points seems far more fair. The question is what is the average Power Level of summons

 

[Brother Glacius]

RP affects your whole army's growth. CP is per battle. So if you don't need to summon, then you don't need to spend the CP during that game. Spending RP is going to shrink your whole battle force compared to others.

[Mulgrok]

the summons could add a Challenge Point to the total for your army.  The more you can summon the higher your total.  The opponent gets extra CP for every difference in challenge points between armies, if I read it right.

[Ish]

1 hour ago, Mulgrok said:

the summons could add a Challenge Point to the total for your army.  The more you can summon the higher your total.  The opponent gets extra CP for every difference in challenge points between armies, if I read it right.

One Crusade Point added to your Order of Battle allows a summoning pool of, say, 5 PL?

That the average PL for a minimum sized squad of the lesser dæmons (e.g., Plaguebearers or Dæmonettes) if memory serves.

Another option would be to add Dæmonic units to your Order of Battle, like other units, and allow players to summon them and only them... So you’d have a 50 PL Order of Battle, put together roster for a 25 PL game, and be able to summon those extra units.