Finally picked up the Directorate

[Guest]

Nothing's built or painted, but I've got a Directorate Patrol Box. List advice or help welcome.

[Justjokin]

Welcome to the Storm Zone!

[Guest]

Thanks.

 

This directorate is a bit complicated to understand at first. I did a fair amount of analyzing the rules. As I see it, I basically have three key list builds: Tanking, Assault, and stealth. Tanking is pretty easy for this army, given the reinforced fore ability on most of the ships, combined with pretty high DR, CR, and HP. Assault focuses on a combination of biohazard beam and torpedo weapons to lower the enemy CP and high AP units to board and capture enemy ships. Lastly, I can field a build where almost every ship has a cloaking device instead of shields, then SRS tokens are used pretty heavily to compensate for cloaking weakness to torpedo weapons.

 

I will note that there isn't a straight forward "these ships are always good in this way," as much of the army seems to be about kitting each ship towards one of the above roles, rather than having specific ships that are always good in a particular way.

 

In terms of weaknesses, not a ton of glaring ones, but here's three key ones:

 

-Our race has a Fleet Tactics of 1, which means we're weak to cyber warfare attacks.

 

-Our Race is light on Wing Capacity. Most of our ships lack this feature and our carrier can hold only 6 (8 if upgraded).

 

-Our Race is light on Shields. Our dreadnought has 1 base and 2 if upgraded...

 

Though for strengths, we've got some pretty awesome ones too:

 

-Our Race has very good AP, CR, and HP, with good-average DR, PD and CP, making for pretty durable ships against most attacks.

 

-Our Race is impressive both at any range and in any Arc. Most of our ships have turret weapons and almost none have less than 40" of range. Most ships boast both direct and indirect weapons too.

 

-Our Race has lots of cloaking options/sniper/indirect fighting options.

 

I suppose for an added weakness, the escort ships that most tanks or assault armies will need are only available in box sets which include only enough for the boxed model. This means that most starting players will lack optimal PD on our capital ships. Can't even get this ships in bits from the spartan website...

[Stoobert]

Welcome Miles!  Escorts serve two primary functions with their PD: protect against incoming torpedoes and protect against boarding assaults.

 

An SRS token of Interceptors makes a fine (perhaps better and cheaper) substitute for Escorts in both functions.  In contrast to Escorts, SRS protect all ships within 6" or 4" depending, not just the ship they are attached to.  Consider including your carrier in every build.  Your ships have good AP to begin with and can be upgraded, so that will help with boarding. 

 

 

three key list builds: Tanking, Assault, and stealth.

 

If you were going to take one of the 3 "builds" you list above, I would opt for "steath".  You'll find yourself having more fun and in this game it's not that hard to put 10 damage on a ship, so regardless of what your DR and CR are that's going to be a hit.  I don't even know if there's such a thing as 'tanking' per se.  It's more about manuver and terrain.

[Guest]

An SRS token of Interceptors makes a fine (perhaps better and cheaper) substitute for Escorts in both functions.  In contrast to Escorts, SRS protect all ships within 6" or 4" depending, not just the ship they are attached to.  Consider including your carrier in every build.  Your ships have good AP to begin with and can be upgraded, so that will help with boarding. 

 

 

If you were going to take one of the 3 "builds" you list above, I would opt for "steath".  You'll find yourself having more fun and in this game it's not that hard to put 10 damage on a ship, so regardless of what your DR and CR are that's going to be a hit.  I don't even know if there's such a thing as 'tanking' per se.  It's more about manuver and terrain.

For SRS, those are dependant on Wings, which are uncommon on most of our ships. The Escorts are a unit we need, just because of our lack of wing availibility. I do understand your point about carriers.

 

As for tanking, in example, our Dreadnought has 6 DR, 14 CR (front arc), and 11 HP. 2 shields, 3 wings, and the special forces MAR. It's also got the Elite Crew, Impervious, and superior design MARs.

 

Those wing slots are likely dedicated to support shuttles, as a tanking model will need repairs. Our Dreadnought PD is 7, which is decent, but we need those escorts which, adding all three, raises my PD to 16, making it a much more respectable squadron.

 

Now, obviously, this isn't for patrol missions, but I think it illustrates the point.

[Stoobert]

A Dread like that with 3 Escorts and a single 3 Support Shuttle SRS token (giving 2+ repair rolls) will almost certainly survive the game intact at 1200pts.   Whether you win or not is another matter, but your Admiral will be F*&$ING safe man! 

 

At 800pt, of course, you know Dreads aren't allowed. 

 

If you play with a pair of Teir 1s at 800 points, experiment with a Battleship and a Carrier (SRS have PD) but no Escorts.  If you bring no Carrier, get Escorts for your Battleship.

[Guest]

A Dread like that with 3 Escorts and a single 3 Support Shuttle SRS token (giving 2+ repair rolls) will almost certainly survive the game intact at 1200pts.   Whether you win or not is another matter, but your Admiral will be F*&$ING safe man! 

 

At 800pt, of course, you know Dreads aren't allowed. 

 

If you play with a pair of Teir 1s at 800 points, experiment with a Battleship and a Carrier (SRS have PD) but no Escorts.  If you bring no Carrier, get Escorts for your Battleship.

Yeah, no dreads, but our battle ship is pretty similar in profile.

 

By comparison to the above:

 

Battleship has the same DR, only slightly lower CR12 (front arc), and the lower 8 HP. I can get the same 2 shields and 3 wings. I also have the same escort options. I lose impervious and elite crew, but gain countermeasures. Our Battleship has better weapon access.

 

Drawback, is, as mentioned, Spartan games has decided that our battle ships need to borrow escorts from other box sets, without even the option to purchase in blisters. Dreadnought box set includes the escorts, as does the carrier, but no other sources for our escort ships.

 

Technically, I could take Zethian League Escorts (RSN Sirens), which I think can be purchased in blisters, but that's a new mess of rules that I don't fully understand. 

 

I have been tempted by some of the Works Raptor ships, being the natural allies to the Directorate. They'd really bolster a Assault themed army.

[Stoobert]

Since I know you're a hobbyist, I understand the frustration.   Buying a carrier seems like a nice solution for you.   Carriers are fun!  Or else borrowing some escorts.  RSN escorts are fine.  But so are Dindrenzi.  Relthoza don't blend well with Directorate I don't think.

[Guest]

Carrier is one of our cloaking units, so they really don't blend well with our tank forces. At present, I'm thinking something like this:

 

Patroll 800pts

 

Tier 1

Battleship (235pts, 4 ships in one squadron)

+2 wings, 3x support shuttles

3x Directorate Escort Ships

 

Tier 2 (360pts, 6 ships in two squadrons)

Crusiers 

3x Crusiers, Biohazzard Ammo

Crusiers

3x Crusiers, Biohazzard Ammo

 

Tier 3 (200pts, 8 ships in two squadrons)

Drones

x4 drones

Allied Works Raptor Corvettes

x4 Corvettes, Scout

 

Total 795pts (5 squadrons, 18 ships).

 

Raptor Corvettes are quick harrassment ships, with a secondary role of anti-artillery. Drones present an interesting option to attempt boarding actions from 48". Biohazard ammo enables lowering CP from range, making boarding actions more effective. Battleship is a tank, ideally forcing my opponents to choose between his elimination and engaging the rest of the army.

[Guest]

Hmm...starter to reconsider the above list, due to cost related restrictions. My patrol set came with 415pts, not including upgrades.

 

I'll admit, the stock ships really suck in that patrol fleet. It's not that any are individually bad, but it's clear that the patrol fleet is designed to encourage additional purchases. This compounds with the blisters not including the needed ships or bits. In example, the patrol fleet includes a battleship without escorts, a cruiser squad without enough bits to become a heavy cruiser squad, and a unit of frigates which really preform a redundant role with the other ships. The frigates can be attached to my battle cruisers, so including those in a set together would make much more sense than including the battleship. Likewise, the battleship would benefit from escort ships, which aren't included and don't have blisters. The battleship is sold in a two pack, despite patrol missions only permitting a single one to be used. Our carrier can take both frigate and cruiser ships as attachments, so including a carrier would make tons of sense in the patrol set alongside the other ships. The single heavy cruiser upgrade bit is a bit of a oddity, as our cruisers have 0 shields, while our heavy cruiser actually has a cloaking device, so upgrading just one ship creates all sorts of issues regarding use of the ship.

 

Sorry, rant. For a simple fix, our patrol set should include a carrier swapped for the battleship. Then we should have a battle ship set that has the escort ships, instead of having the escort ships in a carrier set. The cruisers don't need the one heavy cruiser upgrade bit, swap that for additional SRS tokens. Done, a very function and expandable starter set (Carrier, 3x cruisers, 4x frigates, 2x of each SRS token type). Players can purchase a duplicate of the patrol set, as two carriers are permitted at patrol level points.

 

Looks like I get to buy more models to make the "starter set" functional. Reminds me of GW, a bit. Every box set requires me to purchase a handful of models I don't need, or at least, don't need for entry level play.

[Brother Glacius]

I think you are perhaps coming at this with the wrong attitude. The patrol box sets are very nice. They come with good models, for a very reasonable price, that allows you to experience all three tiers of ship types. Are they optimal? no, but they shouldn't be. This group has a very laid back and "have fun" type of atmosphere. If you are stressing already without even playing a game, perhaps it isn't the right fit for you.

[Guest]

I think you are perhaps coming at this with the wrong attitude. The patrol box sets are very nice. They come with good models, for a very reasonable price, that allows you to experience all three tiers of ship types. Are they optimal? no, but they shouldn't be. This group has a very laid back and "have fun" type of atmosphere. If you are stressing already without even playing a game, perhaps it isn't the right fit for you.

Nah, I was stressing yesterday period. I don't think it has to do with the game. Yesterday was...impressively stressful. As mentioned, it was a rant.

[Stoobert]

I think that Cloak for a Carrier is a handy defensive tactic.  Being less sturdy that other Tier 1 units and carrying valuable wings to assist others, Carriers are often a prime target.  Your Cloaking Carrier will be a wonderful asset to the rest of your fleet, regardless of "tanking" builds or not.

[Theredepic]

Well the Directorate certainly has some nasty (Nastier than i had originally thought) tricks up its sleeves!

 

You Reinforced arc is def. a nice touch, but be aware that when the fleet come together in a melee, i wouldnt rely on it to protect you as much as you'd think. Cloaking is excellent and your Heavy Cruiser is a fantastic choice for the points. Just be aware that to get your full AD, you have to be Decloaked. Also since your have beam weapons, you want to get within 10" to get those reroll on 1's. 

 

I suspect the Directorate is a bit of a finesse Fleet since they have a few different ways of attacking the enemy, though you'd be smart to use those incredibly cheap Cyberwarefare drones. Most people dont have much of a defense against that sort of attack, and given the attack range its a good weapons to soften up targets in combo with a Boarding strategy.

 

Things to think about:

 

-Your battleship is hard to crit but (Very) easy to damage, DR 6 is very average for BBs. Unlike the Terrans, you don't have access to Weapon Shielding, and your firepower will start to drop significantly when you are taking hits. After a few hits, 2-3, you will be vulnerable to Bomber wings. A good player will strip away your escorts relatively easy and leave that wounded battleship at a disadvantage. Protection with other ships or interceptors is probably a good thing.

 

-Support Shuttle only help by removing effects, they don't heal damage. Since you already have superior design on most of your ships that matter, and consequently wont gain hazard markers and the like, you should devote your minimal airwing to PD or a concentrated strike. Fighters or Interceptors are good, but a 6 strong bomber wing going against a target that has been cyber attacked and had its PD disabled is a big beat stick, especially if you follow up with and boarding attempt.

 

- If you cant get your hands on their models, i would looks for cheap substitutes form other companies until Spartan Games catches up. I found a few that are cheap and would look great as ecorts for your vessels since they fit your ship design well.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Noble-Armada-ACTA-MGP3657-The-Church-Rack-Frigate-5-Ship-Miniatures-NIB-/140736859371?pt=Games_US&hash=item20c4920ceb

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Noble-Armada-ACTA-MGP3589-House-Al-Malik-Spider-Frigate-5-Miniatures-Ships-NIB-/141298723826?pt=Games_US&hash=item20e60f6bf2

 

 

Noble Armada ships are a good size and very cheap!

 

Just some thoughts!

~Jared

[Guest]

Rest does wonders.

 

Finally noticed that the r&d cruisers have solid PD and my carriers can take them as accompaniments.

 

So I think I'm going with the stealth route for starters.

[Guest]

Anyway, was at GG today for unrelated reasons. Picked up a Destroyer box set (2 destroyer squads) and ordered the carrier (carrier + 3 escorts) and cruiser (3 cruisers or 3 heavy cruisers) sets.

 

So, patrol level, I've got:

 

Tier 1

Battleship

 

Tier 2

Cruiser (2+1 Heavy cruiser)

Destroyer (2)

 

Tier 3

Frigate (4)

 

That's 590 without upgrades. If I do a "count's as" with all the cruisers as Heavy Cruisers, I go up to 640, without upgrades. With max upgrades, that 640 becomes 750, which is close enough to the attempted 800pts.

 

If I add the ordered sets, I can barely enter battle level. It also allows me to field the other squad of destroyers:

 

Tier 1

Battle ship (1+3 Escorts)

Carrier (1+2 cruisers, 6 wings)

 

Tier 2

Heavy Cruisers (3)

Destroyers (2)

Destroyers (2)

 

Tier 3

Frigates (2)

Frigates (2)

 

Total is 1100 without upgrades.

 

For additional purchases, target would be to purchase 6 R&D cruisers, 12 Drones, and 2 more carriers, putting me well into the minimum squads for a grand army, while granting me full stealth themed armies. In example:

 

Tier1

Carrier (1+2 R&D cruisers, 6 SRS tokens)

Carrier (1+2 R&D cruisers, 6 SRS tokens)

Carrier (1+2 R&D cruisers, 6 SRS tokens)

 

Tier2

Heavy Cruiser (2)

Heavy Cruiser (2)

Destroyer (2)

Destroyer (2)

 

Tier3

Drones (4)

Drones (4)

Drones (4)

 

Total is 1745 without additional upgrades, of which are easy. Drones technically lack steath, but they've got lots of range, indirect weapons and difficult target, so I should be able to mostly keep them out of harms way.

[Stoobert]

There's seldom a reason to take fewer than the maximum allowed ships in a particular squadron.  Consider this fleet at 800pts.

 

 

Pax Miles 800 Directorate (800pts) 800pt Directorate Fleet Roster (Standard Fleet) Directorate Fleet (Standard Fleet) Selections: Tier 1 (540pts)

• Battleship (260pts)
  • Eliminator (260pts)

    Countermeasures, Reinforced (Fore), Superior Design

    +1 Sh (15pts), +1" Mv (5pts), +2 WC (5pts), Biohazard Beams (10pts) (Biohazard), Special Forces (10pts) (*)

    • Escorts (30pts)

      2x Punisher/Suppression Escort (30pts) (Difficult Target, Unmanned)

    • Interceptor Token (10pts)

      2x Interceptor (10pts)

    • Support Shuttle Token (5pts)

      Support Shuttle (5pts)

• Carrier (280pts)
  • Dominance (280pts)

    Countermeasures, Reinforced (Fore)

    +1" Mv (5pts), Cyberwarefare Fore (Cyberwarfare Weapons)

    • Bomber Token (30pts)

      6x Bomber (30pts)

    • R&D Cruisers (120pts)

      2x Tormentor (120pts) (Stealth Systems)

Tier 2 (180pts)

• Cruiser Squadron (180pts)
  • Executioner Squadron (180pts)
    • 3x Executioner (180pts)

      Reinforced (Fore)

      3x Biohazard Beams (15pts) (Biohazard)

Tier 3 (80pts)

• Frigate Squadron (80pts)
  • Enforcer Squadron (80pts)

    4x Enforcer (80pts) (Difficult Target, Reinforced (Fore))

[Guest]

@stoobert: Looks nice, but requires many models I don't presently have. As mentioned for that <800pt list, I don't have the ordered models yet. As for the fewer than max ships, the battle level is as such due to a lack of additional tier3 ships. Obviously, this needs to be fixed, but isn't presently.

 

The grand level does have 2 of 3 max heavy cruisers per squadron, perhaps you are addressing this. I think it works, but I also haven't played any games. Those Destroyers are max and min units of 2 models.

 

You are being helpful and thank you.

[Stoobert]

Sorry I didn't understand you hadn't already ordered the carrier.  If you want to play a learning game at 600pt or thereabouts that would be fine.  I'm sure someone would accomodate you on Saturday.  I'd be happy to play you.

[Brother Glacius]

What is the minimum point value for games? My Kedorians do not have a whole lot of options at the moment. I have to combine both box sets to get to 800pts. It would be nice to learn at a smaller value if possible.

[Theredepic]

5-600 pts should work fine for a learning game.

[Guest]

5-600 pts should work fine for a learning game.

Yeah, should be able to do that. With the battle, patrol and grand formats, I did get the feeling that 800pts was the lowest size game permitted. I know, it says 800pts or less, but I really got the feeling they meant 800pts exactly.

[Guest]

Two games in today at 600pts. Both learning games.

First game against Jesse' drindrazi. Both of us were learning. His fleet featured lots of long range fixed fore weapons mounted on more durable ships. Game was close, but got called when his battleship got stuck in the back corner, with only an asteroid belt to maneuver back into the game - very frustrating. Turn limit was a very tough feature to handle in both lists due to the terrain.

Second game against Stewart's kurwek alliance. I tweaked my list to lower the turn limit on my battle ship. Game was a bit odd, my battleship remained undamaged all game, but contributed very little. As a result, it was basically the rest of my forces against all of his. Stewart basically won, but we called it with my undamaged battleship on the table still. In this game I was in dire need of units that could destroy a battleship...

[Guest]

Alright, last post was cell phone, this one is with PC. The games were interesting. I definitely learn better when I see it in practice.

 

[All] Ships are more durable than I originally conceived, though my [Directorate] ships are actually on the lower end of durability. Issue is the low-average DR, which means our ships get whittled by most opponents. Our average-high CR does mean that our ships that are damaged will likely require a shot for each HP on the ship. For weapon systems, our standard beam turrets are very nice in terms of both range and being able to be used each turn, but the flip is that our weapons are typically weaker or lower in quantity for a comparable ship.

 

I did note that our torpedoes have the ability to fire once on each side, so two total targets per set. This is neat, but I rarely encountered an opportunity due to terrain restraints.

 

The more I play, it does seem that much of the Directorate's Strategy relies on coming at the enemy, more or less, dead on. Then swooping alongside, unleashing torpedoes to both sides (and potentially boarding). And finishing with a move behind with a turret laser that cuts their aft (and possibly mines deployed near their ship). I haven't really been doing this, just seems like the way the models "want" to be used. Granted, such a tactic would be very costly to attempt straight on, so careful maneuvering around planets will be needed prior to the assault. Our ships aren't the fastest out there, so this sort of tactic really relies on divining where the opponent will be in a few turns.

 

The other tactic that caught my eye, is cyberwarfare. Not really a tactic, but the Directorate has quite a few methods of doing this and it's effects are pretty impressive. The Cyberwarfare doesn't do damage specifically, but it does impair their ships, which in turn makes it easier to destroy their ships or to otherwise destroy them.

 

On a side note, there are three Primary defenses against cyberwarfare. You have Fleet tactics to lower the dice directly, DR to lower the potential of a single critical effect, and CR to reduce the potential of additional critical effects. So, my Directorate with a fleet tactics of 1 and average-low DR have a very distinct vulnerability to the initial Critical Effect. Our average-high CR makes us less likely to suffer additional critical effects.

 

For Secondary defenses, basically, anything that modifies critical effects will defend against cyberwarfare indirectly. In example, my directorate Hostility Drone has the Unmanned MAR, which functionally makes it immune to all Life Support Critical Effects.

 

Likewise, my Hostility Drones, while being cheap cyberwarfare weapons, have the Assault Robots Torpedoes MAR, which allows my opponents the PD defense against my cyberwarfare weapons from that unit, which indirectly boosts my opponent's defense against cyberwarfare attacks.

 

As for Cyberwarfare Offense, it basically boils to memorizing the critical effect table:

 

Life Support: Lowers CP exclusively

 

Propulsion: Lowers movement speed to half, potentially prevents turns.

 

Weapons: Arc based weapon impairment.

 

Defense: Disabled PD or shields or deactivated cloak.

 

Bridge: Lowers CP or AP

 

So an opponent where their weapons fire mostly from a particular arc, the weapon systems or Propulsion are ideal targets as you could limit their ability to target you by disabiling an arc of weaponry and limiting their ability to change facings.

 

With an opponent where their shield or PD is preventing "proper" destruction, the defensive systems are ideal.

 

If an opponent could not be destroyed, the alternative is to attempt to capture them. This one would ideally require a disabled PD or lowered AP, as those are the primary defenses against boarding actions. Lowering the opponent's CP increases the odds that the ship is captured, rather than just damaged.

 

I could use cyberwarfare to attack their defensive systems and bridge to lower CP/AP and disable their PD, then a boarding action would meet little resistance and increase odds to capture their ship with minimal damage sustained.

 

So my issue before is being unable to disable/destroy enemy battleships without my own battleship could potentially be resolved by using cyberwarfare to cripple their battleship to the point where it could be boarded and captured without having to deal enough HP to destroy it.

[Guest]

Hmmm....So Patrol fleet focused on cyberwarfare:

 

800pts

 

Tier 1

260pts Carrier (Fore Beam upgraded to Cyberwarfare Weapon)

-Accompanied by 2x R&D Cruisers

-3 SRS Tokens (assault craft or Fighters)

 

260pts Carrier (Fore Beam upgraded to Cyberwarfare Weapon)

-Accompanied by 2x R&D Cruisers

-3 SRS Tokens (assault craft Fighters)

 

Tier 2

180pts R&D Cruisers (3)

 

Tier 3

100pts Drones (4)

 

So, in terms of Cyberwarfare potential, I've got 4 dice (Linked) on each of the carrier units and on the R&D Cruisers at the 40" mark. 10 at 30", 14 at 20" and 12 at 10". The drones add another 12 dice, but theirs can be blocked by PD, so I'd need to make a point to disable their defenses with the other ships first. It's noteworthy that all my cyberwarfare weapons are Fore mounted, so it'll be tough to get these working against a fast or hidden opponent (like behind a planet).

 

I do think this list could completely debilitate a battleship very easily. I think it will have trouble against more mundane ships in big squadrons, with tier 3 and tier 2 ships presenting more of a challenge than tier 1.

 

Anyway, I don't have these models yet, and it's just here as food for thought.