NtK's Bretonnia - NOW WITH PICTURES!!!

[McNathanson]

I'm finishing up the models for this list so it's about ready to hit the table.  I'm trying to build a Bretonnia army that looks like I imagine an army would look.  I've got 140 peasants in there and 19 Knights (including characters), plus two big honkin' war machines.  I'll admit that the second Trebuchet is mainly to give this army some needed teeth so that I can hopefully make it interesting.  I could drop the 2nd Treb and cut down the Archers or Pilgrims a little to get a unit of Peg Knights, but to be honest I've never really liked the look or the notion of a UNIT of peg knights... maybe a hero, but not a unit of richie-Rich knights, nah.

 

EDIT: revised with - 3rd caster and + 30 MAA

 

LORDS
Lord with Virtue of Confidence (to provide a threat vs. combat characters)

Lord with Virtue Audacity (kitted for fighting S5+ things like monsters or vampires or whatever)

L4 w/ Dispel Scroll and Heavens lore (rides with KotR)

 

HEROES

Paladin BSB

L1 w/ Prayer Icon and Beasts lore (rides with KotR or Grails)

 

CORE

8 Knights of the Realm w/ +1 Ld banner

50 Men at Arms

30 Men at Arms

6x10 Peasant Bowmen (6 units of 10, or a mix of both big and small units)

 

SPECIAL

none

 

RARE

8 Grail Knights w/ +1 M banner

2 Trebuchets

 

I've got no idea how this list will play against all the various armies out there but equally I'm not sure I can think of any army which would totally NOT be fun to at least try against this.  So if you're bored take a look and tell me if you think I've got a glaring hole (or, far less likely I'm thinking, if I'm going to totally crush some opponents without a fun battle).

 

Edit: So far versus Dark Elves it seems like it can at least hang, if not win outright... it's hard to get VPs from this army!

 

Thanks!!

[generalripphook]

I would break up the archers into two units of 30 and you can run two in horde.

 

I have no experience in the Grail reliquiae but I'd assume that if you don't field them at 30 they aren't gonna be useful.

 

Grail knights are Nice but overcosted.

[MexicanNinja]

There's only a few things in this list which concern any army I play or would play:

 

The characters in the KoTR

The grail knight unit

the trebs (and that's only because I've used them and know what they are capable of)

 

The bowmen....yeah, they rarely hit anything at long range.

 

The MAA don't win combat's they just lock something down.  Even if they are steadfast, it's on crap LD without a unit of knights nearby.  Basically, your opponents just need to kill the grail knights and the KoTR unit with your characters in it.

 

The pilgrims die by the handful in combat and just lock stuff down as well.

 

It looks fun and it may do a lot better than I imagine; however, just by looking at it, you don't have a lot of threats.

[Romes]

20 Grail Reliquiae (14 Pilgrims and Reliquiae)

 

...

 

I have never seen this unit! (holy crap)

 

What does it do 0.0?

 

Besides that, I think you might be happier with 4 units of 10 archer,s 2 with braziers, and a couple units of yeomen. Also it would be really nice to find the points to make those casters LVL2 (especially beasts casters). Also worth considering making the footslogger beasts as well. Reason: The life sig doesn't do much since you already have prayer icon.  Also: Step 1: roll the footslogger last, Step 2: get transformation step 3: mountain chimera. Good reason to model a sweet mountain chimera!

 

Also, due to weird 3 man ranks, you probably could take mirror instead of stubborn crown. That's your hardest hitting unit anyways.

 

I like this list, I think with splitting up archers and some mobile chaff, protecting the trebs and forcing your opponent to come to you for a knight charge feels like a solid plan.

 

still no idea what Grail Reliquiae are!

[generalripphook]

They are men at arms with hw and shields, hatred, stubborn and start with the blessing. They are okay but the parry save is pretty lame when you already have the blessing and strength 3.

[MexicanNinja]

20 Grail Reliquiae (14 Pilgrims and Reliquiae)

 

...

 

I have never seen this unit! (holy crap)

 

What does it do 0.0?

 

Besides that, I think you might be happier with 4 units of 10 archer,s 2 with braziers, and a couple units of yeomen. Also it would be really nice to find the points to make those casters LVL2 (especially beasts casters). Also worth considering making the footslogger beasts as well. Reason: The life sig doesn't do much since you already have prayer icon.  Also: Step 1: roll the footslogger last, Step 2: get transformation step 3: mountain chimera. Good reason to model a sweet mountain chimera!

 

Also, due to weird 3 man ranks, you probably could take mirror instead of stubborn crown. That's your hardest hitting unit anyways.

 

I like this list, I think with splitting up archers and some mobile chaff, protecting the trebs and forcing your opponent to come to you for a knight charge feels like a solid plan.

 

still no idea what Grail Reliquiae are!

Grail Relique are the pilgrims who are stubborn.  They were awesome in 7th ed because the relique takes up a ton of space and has the unit strenth 5 rule (doesn't mean jack for 8th, I know, but it was the perk for 7th ed). Other than locking something down, they don't do jack but die.  They have the potential to be decent, and with a few buffs from the lore of light could be a very solid unit.  I honestly don't know why they aren't used over MMA.  I really don't.  A huge unit with a level 4 Lore of Life wizard could do some damage.

[McNathanson]

Thanks guys!

As I mentioned the Bowmen can and probably will be broken up into 6 units of 10.  That's so I can use them as chaff in place of mounted yoemen (which I don't mind, and may make their way into the list if my plan of using the bowmen to delay/harry/etc. doesn't work).  

 

Totally agreed MN: the only threats are the Knights; the MAA *can* win with a Beasts buff and Halberds in Horde formation, but they're mostly for holding bad guys in place and shielding the rest of the army, which they do fairly well in range of the General and BSB (which they will be!)

 

Romes, I agree and had considered whether I would be able to roll at 3 Wildforms each turn with 3 L1s, and I think that on a good winds of magic roll I could, which is probably the most effective thing I could do with the magic I have.  The Life lore was a holdover from having an L3 and wanting to run Beasts x2 plus Life x1, but I'll ditch it unless I bring back the L3/L4!

I had played with the Stubborn Crown, or Mirror, or Ruby Goblet, all as options for the 3rd L1 (the one that doesn't have the Scroll or Prayer Icon).  The Crown seems like a good place to start and see if I'm winning/losing combats more often with that unit.  I would really like to be able to have the characters leave the KotR (e.g. charge out) and still have the KotR stick around, which without the Crown or Characters they probably won't.  I dunno, maybe the Ruby Goblet or Mirror is a better play... I'll try 'em all!

 

Great feedback.  I'm gonna take a look at what I would change with an increasing Lord points allowance (not much but maybe an L3/4 with Life at drop some Pilgrims or the Reliquiae entirely)?

[McNathanson]

Revised list, see above.

[McNathanson]

I think if this list proves to be good enough to give a decent game to most of the people I play with, I'll try dropping the 2nd Lord for more MAA and/or archers.  Right now I'm very concerned that it's too soft to be any challenge even if I play it well.

[MexicanNinja]

I think if this list proves to be good enough to give a decent game to most of the people I play with, I'll try dropping the 2nd Lord for more MAA and/or archers.  Right now I'm very concerned that it's too soft to be any challenge even if I play it well.

Let's test it out sometime.  Here's the minor things I would do:

 

Add the standard of discipline on a unit and give your level 4 the crown of command.

 

I will agree with you about the magic buffs on the knights.  However, my views stem from a past Bret player who ran 4 lance formations only to watch them all fluff on attacks and wound rolls.  That's my only point on the 2 lances you have.  While they have the potential, you can't count on them when you need to.  All Bret players should be able to agree that if you don't break a unit on the charge it's going to be a long grind.  This is why Bret's use the character walls, which you have done, to help combat that "rubber lance".

 

I really like your list though.

[McNathanson]

Standard of Discipline is on the KotR (+1 Ld banner right?)

 

Believe me I know about rubber lancing!  I seriously lost in the Seattle GT finals due to my combo-charge of 9 Grails, 9 KotR, 9 Errant, and a Lord on Hippogryph dealing like 1 or 2 wounds TOTAL, it was epically impossible statistically how badly I rolled... ended up finishing 4th or something instead of 1st due to getting wiped out after that :)

 

So yeah I agree in a competitive tournament list I would need redundancy (more Knights) to reduce the odds of flubbing the charge, but with this list being a mix of theme-centric and trying to be decent still, I'm okay losing the occasional game due to bad dice on a big charge!

 

I'll try to get this list ready for a game with you soon man!

[MexicanNinja]

I didn't see the +1LD banner for some reason.

 

Have you thought about  a unit of 30ish pilgrims instead of the 50 MAA?

[McNathanson]

Although I posted this already in MN's Dark Elf list thread I thought afterward I really should have put it in this thread since this is the list I've been discussing, so I'll just repeat here and add a little more :)

I played a really fun game vs. MN's Dark Elf list that he's planning to take to the qualifier.  It was my first game with my Bretonnia army since 7th edition years ago, and since changing to a peasant-heavy list above... I wasn't sure whether the design was going to work as planned at all.  

 

So on the plus side, I think I validated the design: the army played as I envisioned (at least in this matchup), with the archers laying down some chaff suppression, getting in the way of blitzing units, and generally clogging things up for MN.  And the Men at Arms were heroic, but I think that had as much to do with MN's bad impact hit rolls as anything else :)

 

I also learned a few things about my magic phase and I'm revising my list slightly to account for it.  I need more sustained combat capability (a Paladin with Ogre blade or at least Sword of Might).  

 

All in all a great first outing: I think I won by well over 1000 points, as I gave up only 4 units of Bowmen, 1 Lord, and nothing else!  This list is different than most of my armies have been.  It's designed for a longer game and a slower start, and I'm curious to find out if it can really hang with a list that is truly strong in the late game (like a Slann-based lizardman list or a good VC army).  But at least it was able to hang with a fast aggressive list, which was the first test!

 

As for changes going forward:

1. I already nixed the 3rd caster, and replaced her with a Paladin to ride with the Grails or run solo
2. I am changing the HKB lord to my own preferred build... he's just too inconsistent for my liking
3. Later, if I can paint a few more units of archers, I might drop my 2nd Lord character to add 'em.  Or, alternately I might get a 2nd block of MAA going... that would be pretty awesome looking, but without the ward I think they will be disappointing.  But first things first I need to finish painting my current models :)

Onward and upward, Bretonnia!  Huzzah!!

[McNathanson]

I didn't see the +1LD banner for some reason.

 

Have you thought about  a unit of 30ish pilgrims instead of the 50 MAA?

 

Yes I am constantly adding/removing a 6x6 Pilgrims unit.  They're just a little too expensive for what they do, and I think I'll instead try to work in either a second smaller block of MAA, or more Bowmen, as outlined above!

[McNathanson]

Revised the list to reflect the latest version, which essentially drops the 3rd caster and some magic items for a second unit of MAA, and also tweaks the Lord kits some.

[McNathanson]

I took a few pictures of the progress on the MAA shields... 30 have their emblems, 50 more to go!  After this I still have a lot of finish painting on the shields and helmets and stuff, but they are looking at least close to final.

 

The single model shows a more "finished" shield; the rest just have the emblems done.

 

[Prophecy]

Those are awesome.

[rudra34]

SIckeningly good.  Well done.

[MexicanNinja]

Nice work!

[Grom20]

Great paint work!

[McNathanson]

I received my GameZone minis, wow am I impressed with the artistry!  These will make perfect characters for my Bretonnia army; thanks for the pointer Andrewgeddon!

 

Pros: 

- BEAUTIFUL models (GW needs to take a lesson on how to create feminine models that aren't cheesy)

- The Feudal Knights are perfect match in scale for GW's 6th edition Bretonnia

- The detail level is very high; these are great for characters (though this might be a "con" for a RnF model)

 

Cons:

- Fit and finish left a little to be desired... green stuff and a little hand-fitting needed to build (reminiscent of GW's metals from ~5-10 years back)

- The bases aren't a perfect GW match and the slot-fitting feet on the horses took some modification to mount (I ended up cutting off the tabs and just gluing directly to the base... not the strongest)

- The material is a little cheap... I had a fine tip of the horse's mane break off with barely a touch!

 

I've primed the mounted sorceress and plan to get started on painting her soon.  I hope my hands are steady and my eyes good enough for detail work this small still... haven't tried in years to paint such tiny stuff!  I'll post pics when she's finished.

 

I also got the Knight Errant Hero (amazing model) and Knight Errant II to use as Lords or Paladins, and picked up a single Mounted Squire I because I liked the pose and model so well for an eventual unit of Mounted Yoemen.

<brandishing paint brush> For the Lady!

[McNathanson]

Oh and in a quick gaming update: my peasants are still doing quite well after a game vs. Fixxer's Skaven and two games against Micah's OnG.  Both lists I faced were pretty tame but then I feel so is mine.  As I hoped, the games were all fun, full of exciting combats and tactical maneuvering, and all but one came down to the final turn before it was decided!  I couldn't be happier with them so far.  And the large MAA block is easily the MVP of the army thus far :)

[McNathanson]

I'm working on a new conversion for my General for OFCC, and want your input!  I've got him mostly done but I can't decide on his weapon/arm pose!  Take a look at some of my ideas and let me know what you think.

 

Steed trampling Chaos banner:

 

General showing cape:

 

General up close:

 

Sword down option A:

 

Lance down option B:

 

Lance up option C:

 

Sword up option D:

 

Thoughts/suggestions?!

[McNathanson]

PS: if anyone with mod powers can change the title to remove the " - NOW WITH PICTURES!!!" that'd be most appreciated :P

[Don't Panic]

lances down, swords up thats how brets like to...  :)  i like the lance down, always have with brets for some reason.  pretty sweet looking model cant wait to see your paint on it!