Future of WFB - 9th ed and beyond

[Brother Glacius]

Okay, so lets talk where fantasy is heading. Based on rumors, we have heard that the rules themselves won't be too different from 8th. We have heard also that the previous army books are going away, and that GW plans to cut down to 6. There have also been rumors about a skirmish level game.

 

Speculations and questions:

 

1) what setting will it take place in? The old world is gone. So does 9th take place in some window of time on the old world? Does it take place in the "new beginning"? The window option does not appeal to me. But it is also the only option that lets me use my existing armies. A new beginning appeals more from a story point of view, but then my collections are toast, which really doesn't make me happy.

 

2) rule set...8th vs skirmish - I'm not too sure how these are going to end up. I think 8th's handle of skirmish units is lame. Doesn't seem to me that it would work well making a skirmish game (unless each model is separate and "units" are pretty much gone). I don't see how both of these rumors can be true. And if it does turn out to be a skirmish game...ick. Warmachine already fills that. I have armies for an army game...not a skirmish game.

 

3) army books - so we now are down to 6. That is a huge cut. If it is indeed a mashup of previous armybooks, then how does balance work? Do you cut out certain units? Do you just toss everything in? Balance was iffy at best in 8th. End Times just tossed balance out of the window. How do you mash together races into one book, and keep it on an even keel?

 

 

[McNathanson]

I think it will be a new beginning, using mostly the same races (after all, they have the models).  It will be created in the vision of the surviving human Soul, who is probably a Knight, since they are the best.  They might get rid of some of the dumber races like Dwarves and Vampire Counts (JUST KIDDING!)

I think they'll make a battle-sized game using round bases and loose formations, similar to the scale of 40k in terms of model count.

 

I think they'll combine the books into Elves, Chaos, Humans and Dwarves, Undead, Orcs Goblins and Ogres, Skaven and Lizardmen.  I think the models will be the same and they'll start with rules supporting everything they currently can make.  I think they'll issue new units that can go into one or more of the above books.

 

This is fun!

What else??

[McNathanson]

Oh and regarding balance they'll just write "close enough" rules and let us balance with Swedish Comp or another comp scoring equivalent (just like they do now).

[King Mekhet]

The long and short is that the rumours are all over the place, are changing by the day, and at best can be described as "informed guesswork." I would guess that at 40-80% is also just plain made up as well.

 

The general undercurrent of the rumours is that 9th edition will contain some sort of of game with fewer numbers of models. Whether this will replace the existing game or run parallel to it is unknown, but it is quite frankly inconceivable to me that GW would abandon their current system for one that requires *fewer* models. My guess is that this is conceived of as an entry-level game in order to make it easier for new players to start the hobby. Whether "skirmish" actually means skirmisher units, or simply restricts unit sizes to a level more workable for smaller point caps, remains to be seen. I played 500-1,000 point games as part of an escalation campaign with friends and I can tell you right now that 8th edition WHFB doesn't bloody work at that level worth a damned.

 

As for the factions, this as well remains to be seen. Everything is destroyed in the fluff so they can basically do whatever the hell they like.

However my guess (again - guess - since this is all we can do right now) is that they're grouping us all into umbrella factions, then ditching everything that isn't plastic, then reintroducing everything else as supplements. So for instance dwarfs might be relegated to crewing "Empire" warmachines, with maybe an elite unit here or there, but a supplement can let you introduce a larger number of dwarfen units in exchange for certain other restrictions (no knights, for instance). Tomb Kings could be reintroduced by way of a supplement, with some upgrade sprues to turn VC skeletons into TK skeletons (which lots of people do now anyways).

 

Quite frankly, I am actually quite excited for this. Yes it means losing a lot of choice, but much of this is merely the *illusion* of choice. Cull the entire metal/finecast range from the VC list and, beyond characters, 90% of players wouldn't even notice. A good number of other factions are in roughly the same boat.

In respect of the elves, there's an enormous amount of overlap between the ranges that could quite easily be trimmed for efficiency. 50% of all of the books are basically redundant units with slightly different army-wide special rules and slight variability in equipment options. Combine those all together, with "formation rules" for including Caledor refugees, etc. and you've basically got the same thing as before. Throw in some upgrade sprues to help people convert HE/DE/WE spearmen and you're golden there as well. The rest is just colour palette.

[pretre]

Check on what Hastings has had to say about it. He and Harry are the most reliable voices re: whfb right now.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

I am playing the wait and see game now. Anything can happen.

 

In the mean time a lot of things are happening in other games that will keep my attention till then. And if it sucks..... well they just announced the second wave to Star Wars Armada. I should be investing in that.

[pretre]

I am playing the wait and see game now. Anything can happen.

This. I remember similar predictions that came way wrong in the past. Waiting for reliable info is the smart bet

[MexicanNinja]

Question number 1:  When is the 9th rule book being released?

 

Questions numero B: When is the 9th rule book being released?

 

And lastly: When is the 9th rule book being released?

 

Nothing else matters but the rulebook.  WHEN WILL IT BE HERE!!???!!!111!!!???

[McNathanson]

I am also just awaiting the release before putting much serious thought into it.  However I think it's fun to guess and then come back after it's out and see how we fared ;)

[Murphy'sLawyer]

I am also just awaiting the release before putting much serious thought into it. However I think it's fun to guess and then come back after it's out and see how we fared ;)

Before I was all for trying to guess what was going to happen next. Up untill the last book I thought I had a decent idea, but now.......... I have no clue where they're going. They may run 9th in the Twilight hour of the ET or they may ..... who knows? No miniature company has ever done this before and the risk is Huge!

 

But my predictions are this, of they manage to pull off a solid rules set that is balanced-ish they have a chance to pick up a few more sales for the short term but the long term depends on the fluff and if it is appealing.

 

If they try to just throw rules out there to sell models that are still priced high..... yeah, there are a lot of other game companies who are going to be very happy. The Second highest selling miniature game out there is X-Wing right behind 40K and they are catching up fast. The days of GW relying on their household name is ending fast and they need to wake up or FFG will be buying them out in 10 years.

 

The next generation of gamers won't put up with GW's antics. They need a new PR program. They are still running on business models from the 80's, they need to change their approach, not just the fluff and IP rights.

[generalripphook]

I wonder if they are going to introduce the new edition/fluff with a killer campaign book for the new world.

[Brother Glacius]

I think it was Andy Chambers that was talking about how GW has become a collector's mini company as opposed to a gaming mini company. As long as they can pop out models and have people buy them...the game aspect is really secondary. That really worries me when it comes to what will happen with WFB.

[splinx]

I have found myself regressing into more old school (90's) warhammer fantasy novels, campaign books and the like recently and its been a great motivator for me to start a new army. I have found the indecision on 9th and all the rumors to be useless and harmful in the way i view my favorite hobby so have decided to kind of switch off and concentrate on what made me fall in love with hobby in the first place. Reading Gotrek and Felix novels, Florin and Lorenzo, Witch Hunter, and Brunner are absolutely superb and have made me forget about what is incoming and made me realize i honestly don't care. The wealth of figures available outside of GW will continue to feed my new model addiction if i need it (Who am i trying to kid) and there is plenty of fluff and story lines available to keep me going for at least another 20 years easy. 

 

I think the worry and concern is pointless as there is nothing we can do. GW has consistently shown that its pure business goal is financial and as mentioned above Rick Priestley and Andy Chambers both have confirmed the company is going down the line of collectors models rather than a gaming line. If GW decide to change up their IP purely to keep it under lock and key just to make more money then it wouldn't surprise me. The hobby is actually bigger than just the company that makes the models and puts out rulebooks. Communities such as this will ensure it continues in 8th ed if they do break 9th and as a ruleset i think 8th its pretty decent. 

[King Mekhet]

I really doubt this is anything beyond a fluff reboot. I think that they're trying to break out of the confines of their old fluff so that their range can be a bit more nimble and flexible.

A rebooted setting could provide justification for alliances between factions (a la 40K, which is good for business). It could revitalize some of the more stagnant factions (i.e. Bretonnians, who are basically just a historical range). It adds some opportunity to do new and interesting things with the sculpts going forward.

I doubt though that we'll see the game change dramatically. GW knows that this is the surest way to lose their player base (necessary to incorporate new players), so I doubt they'll risk alienating BOTH the fluff purists AND the gaming purists at the same time.

As for Harry and Hastings, 90% of what they've been spouting has been conjecture and speculation. There is very little in the way of concrete rumours from anyone save Darnok, and his sources contradict themselves at a number of occasions. Not to mention who knows if what they're relaying is current, true, or properly interpreted.

[McNathanson]

... (i.e. Bretonnians, who are basically just a historical range). ...

AAAAAAAEEEEEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!! <goes at King Mekhet like a Spider Monkey>

[dkieft]

 The days of GW relying on their household name is ending fast and they need to wake up or FFG will be buying them out in 10 years.

I am down with that.

 

The next generation of gamers won't put up with GW's antics. They need a new PR program. They are still running on business models from the 80's, they need to change their approach, not just the fluff and IP rights.

Actually in the 80's as a budding game company they had a great model. It was in the later 90's that tehy started cracking down on indie stores and into the early 2000's cutting of internet sales. They have been traveling down this path for a long while, but in the 80's and the early 90's they were just fine.