Guest Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Anyway, if your going to start lifting non-GW imposed list restrictions, armies like this start becomming legal: AM 1850 CAD1 Lord Commissar 2x vets Bane Hammer CAD2 Lord Commissar 2x vets Bane Hammer CAD3 Company Command Squad 2x vets Storm Lord Total 1850. By no means a broken list, but all the same, completely banned at almost every event. Easily less broken than an Imperial Knight army of 4-5 knights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted April 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Wait. Since when do scatter lasers rend? Pax, I am a fan of yours, believe it or not :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted April 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Watch Scatter Lasers change to S3 :) still situationally OP Ando Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Anyway, if your going to start lifting non-GW imposed list restrictions, armies like this start becomming legal: Only one of the lists we had was outside of that. And three super heavies are going to down pretty quick to a lot of D. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted April 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 OK OK OK enough with the winge :D let's talk reasonable ratios....I would like to here some input please I said 5 in a 10 man unit is reasonable based on nothing but my opinion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 OK OK OK enough with the winge :D let's talk reasonable ratios....I would like to here some input please I said 5 in a 10 man unit is reasonable based on nothing but my opinion... Even 5 in 10 is nasty as hell. 1 in 3 was pretty good. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Basically, look at every other base troop in the game. What do they have for heavy/special weapon ratios? (You can largely consider SL as heavy since it is heavy and SC as special since it is assault). Best is generally around 1 in 5 (Most marines) or 2 in 5 (SOB, etc). 1 in 2 is crazy town. 1 in 1 is omgwtfbbq town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Only one of the lists we had was outside of that. And three super heavies are going to down pretty quick to a lot of D. :) Not with the Vaul support batteries. You can't move and fire artillery, so we can sit back and enjoy at least few turns before you are in range. Meanwhile, Doom Hammers have 60" range with 7" battle cannons, and the Stormlord has 30 S6 ap3 shots at 60" of range and against up to two different targets. I can also get 2-3 thunderblitz in there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Not with the Vaul support batteries. You can't move and fire artillery, so we can sit back and enjoy at least few turns before you are in range. Meanwhile, Doom Hammers have 60" range with 7" battle cannons, and the Stormlord has 30 S6 ap3 shots at 60" of range and against up to two different targets. I can also get 2-3 thunderblitz in there... My list also had a Wraithknight. While, I'm sure those S6 AP3 shots are cute and all. What? 20 Hits, 2-3 Wounds on a Wraithknight before saves and FNP, so maybe one wound per turn. The D on the Wraithcannons will probably have something to say. :) And now that I know Vauls are 24", I might just swap for some Firedragons in a WS for hard targets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 My list also had a Wraithknight. While, I'm sure those S6 AP3 shots are cute and all. What? 20 Hits, 2-3 Wounds on a Wraithknight before saves and FNP, so maybe one wound per turn. The D on the Wraithcannons will probably have something to say. :) And now that I know Vauls are 24", I might just swap for some Firedragons in a WS for hard targets. Is the wraithknight still a MC? or is it gargantuan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Is the wraithknight still a MC? or is it gargantuan? Allegedly Gargantuan. I think that a legit match-up will be Flyrants. 160 Shots only put 3-4 wounds out on a flying T6 target with a 3+. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Gargantuan. I think that a legit match-up will be Flyrants. 160 Shots only put 2-3 wounds out on a flying T6 target with a 3+. Just wondering, where you found the rumor for gargantuan? I keep finding ones that call it a "colossal" creature, but can't find any that call it a gargantuan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Just wondering, where you found the rumor for gargantuan? I keep finding ones that call it a "colossal" creature, but can't find any that call it a gargantuan. Check back through my posts in the other thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Anyway, WraithKnight D ranged weapons remains an issue. It does mean that wraithknight would have to be fielded without the invulnerable save option, so they really don't become too unbalanced. I am curious if the new changes will level the field enough to allow armies access to the various TO-imposed restricted units and rules. Like the Stormhammer, in example. Does it really seem so broken with the same points producing two ranged D gargantuan creatures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbitron Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Allegedly Gargantuan. I think that a legit match-up will be Flyrants. 160 Shots only put 3-4 wounds out on a flying T6 target with a 3+. Not sure even Flyrants would be legit. You mentioned the size 40 jetbikes would take up, that works against the Flyrants pretty well. If Eldar goes first, they can definitely create some havoc with positioning and board control. Not to mention obsec. Just force the flyrant off the board, and prevent them from getting any objectives. Should be pretty easy. Flyers/FMCs are definitely the way to go to give the bikes and D weapons the best competition, but honestly... why not take a little AA with the other points? Also... skyfire nexus, lawl. That's still a thing in 7th right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 I don't think the ranged D is actually going to make it to any events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Not sure even Flyrants would be legit. You mentioned the size 40 jetbikes would take up, that works against the Flyrants pretty well. If Eldar goes first, they can definitely create some havoc with positioning and board control. Not to mention obsec. Just force the flyrant off the board, and prevent them from getting any objectives. Should be pretty easy. Flyers/FMCs are definitely the way to go to give the bikes and D weapons the best competition, but honestly... why not take a little AA with the other points? Also... skyfire nexus, lawl. That's still a thing in 7th right? It is, although no one uses it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 I'm trying to remain positive, but the view from my perspective is really dire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 I'm trying to remain positive, but the view from my perspective is really dire. Do what I'm doing. Remain positive until the codex hits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 I'm trying to remain positive, but the view from my perspective is really dire. Oh come now, it's eldar....Even if GW makes them amazing, we'll still have most players fielding marines.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 So, as far as the OP is concerned. Even the old 1 in 3 ratio when using scatter lasers is still way too good almost exlusively because the 36" range and 1 extra shot over the shuricannon. Sure you lose bladestorm and AP4, but big whoop. I also love the freaking INSANE idea that a scatter laser (or a shuricannon for that matter) are worth 10 pts and a Heavy Bolter or combi-flamer are worth the same? Let's not even get into the PLATFORM they are on. The more I think about this, the more depressed I get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Oh come now, it's eldar....Even if GW makes them amazing, we'll still have most players fielding marines.... And losing to the eldar players. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 The more I think about this, the more depressed I get. Hold on a week or two, then get depressed. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 And losing to the eldar players. :) Also, with the rate of codex release, only the players with current eldar armies will benefit. GW will have a hard counter out before the "new" eldar players get their armies painted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Any clue, are the windriders keeping their 3+ armor save? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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